THX 1138 (1971) / Duv-All In #1 / Dystopian Societies
In this episode, we’re not just chatting about the film itself but also about its themes of control, rebellion, and the preservation of human stories in a world gone cold and clinical. Our hosts are tearing apart this George Lucas classic, reflecting on Robert Duvall’s performance and the film’s unique visual style, which some say is as sterile as the society it depicts.
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Transcript
In the dying embers of human existence.
Speaker A:As the asteroid, a behemoth the size of Texas, hurtles relentlessly toward Earth, the world braces for an apocalyptic end.
Speaker A:Deep beneath the bunker, a refuge plunges into the bowels of the earth.
Speaker A:Here the chosen gather their purpose clear to preserve the very soul of our civilization.
Speaker A:The 35 and 70 millimeter prints that encapsulate the magic, the emotion and the dreams of generations past.
Speaker A:These masterpieces, each frame a testament to the human spirit, are carefully cataloged and cradled in the cavernous confines of the bunker.
Speaker A:Perhaps there was room for more, for friends and family yearning for salvation.
Speaker A:But sacrifices must be made.
Speaker A:The movie nerds stand united, the keepers of a flame, promising a future where the art of storytelling endures, transcending the boundaries of time and space.
Speaker A:God help us all.
Speaker B:Welcome to Back to the Frame Rate, part of the Western Media Podcast Network.
Speaker B:In this cinematic crusade, we journey through films on VOD and streaming platforms, deciding their fate.
Speaker B:Salvation in our vault of legends or eternal banishment in the flames of the upcoming asteroid apocalypse.
Speaker B:You can find all episodes of our show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favorite podcast app.
Speaker B:Or find us on social media at Back to the Frame rate.
Speaker B: I am NMS: Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker A:Hello.
Speaker A:How are you?
Speaker B:I'm doing all right and excited for what is going to be.
Speaker B:I think this is what we can officially call the launch of season three.
Speaker A:Of season three.
Speaker B:Yeah, it kind of is because we are starting the year off with a new retrospective.
Speaker B:And sadly, though, this is coming off the heels of.
Speaker B:I think it's some sad news, but we thought this would be a great opportunity to look at the life and career of one of our great American actors, Robert Duvall, who passed away a few weeks ago.
Speaker B:And we're doing this by revisiting some of his films, some of his more well known films, and some of his more deeper cuts, I guess you could say.
Speaker B:And this is going to be, I think, a fun look at his filmography.
Speaker B: early roles, and that is THX: Speaker B:And I haven't seen this in a long, long time.
Speaker B:And this was quite an experience watching this.
Speaker B:Sam, I'd like to hear a little bit about, you know, have you.
Speaker B:We never really been talking much about when we kind of do this list together.
Speaker B:What is your, you know, relationship with this movie?
Speaker B:I know we're both George Lucas fans You know, there's good and bad with that, but tell me about where you are with this.
Speaker B:Have you seen this before and what were your thoughts on it, if you had?
Speaker A:I saw it for the first time last night.
Speaker A:I mean, Saturday night.
Speaker A:I've seen the.
Speaker A:The short before, which I liked, but I hadn't seen the Robert Duvall feature that was produced by, you know, Francis Ford Coppola with American Zoetrope.
Speaker A:But so I. I knew of it and I was aware of it, but I'd never actually sat down and watched it before.
Speaker A:So I have a very, like, immediate fresh in my mind take.
Speaker B:Yeah, I. I have seen.
Speaker B:I did see this movie, I think, back in college.
Speaker B:It was like a college film.
Speaker B: our, we're gonna watch TX THX: Speaker B:And I remember around the same time.
Speaker B:I short at the time, which is interesting.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's a very.
Speaker B:It's different.
Speaker B:I mean, it's really just like a.
Speaker B:A chase movie.
Speaker B:You know, there's not much character development in it.
Speaker B:But I actually like the short.
Speaker B:It's very stylized.
Speaker A:I like the short a lot.
Speaker A:Yeah, I appreciate the short.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But no, it's interesting.
Speaker B:I. I didn't know that you'd never seen this before.
Speaker B:I hadn't.
Speaker A:I. I own it too.
Speaker A:And I just was like, oh, there it is on the shelf.
Speaker A:I guess I'll open.
Speaker A:I watched the director's cut, which I know he'd meddled with and stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think that really all that's available now.
Speaker B:What's funny is that when I saw this in college, I must have.
Speaker B:I didn't see the director's cut because that wasn't even around then.
Speaker B:And I don't know where you can even get the version that's not the director's cut.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker B:I don't think it's streaming anywhere.
Speaker B:Maybe on fooling around on DVD somewhere.
Speaker B:But I would be interested now in comparing the two if I could find a dvd, because I did notice there are some egregious use of CGI here and there.
Speaker B:Like, no, that was not.
Speaker B: ot not be, like, done back in: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I did notice at the beginning there was some shot in the control room where there was, like, a window.
Speaker A:And I think it would have been a white wall in the original, but through this glass window, there was all these moving pieces, and it looked kind of like a digital background that was put in one of the shots.
Speaker A:And for a second, I didn't know.
Speaker A:I went online and figured out it was the director's cut.
Speaker A:But I didn't know that the director's cut.
Speaker A:That he'd gone back and done that.
Speaker A: hat's what amazing shots from: Speaker A:But because it was added later, so.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:All right, well, let's.
Speaker B:I have a plot synopsis floating around here somewhere.
Speaker B:It's pretty brief.
Speaker B:I think I got this off of IMDb or Wiki, I'm not sure, but it's here it is.
Speaker B:It's in the 25th century, a time when people have designations instead of names.
Speaker B: A man THX: Speaker A:All Earth Council in its infinite wisdom, has decided these two numbers are to be disposed of.
Speaker A:The Biochemical Forum has demands to make on their parts, however, before they are eliminated.
Speaker A:That's the kind of efficiency that makes you perfect proud to live in this era.
Speaker A:You have asked, are we happy?
Speaker A:Are we happy?
Speaker A:And effective consultation with leading experts in the field makes it perfectly clear, perfectly clear that we are all now programmed for perfect happiness.
Speaker A:Perfect happiness.
Speaker A:Perfect happiness.
Speaker A:Perfect happiness.
Speaker B:Ooh, fade out there.
Speaker B:That goes on like that for a little while.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think that kind of gives you an idea of what you're in for turning on this film.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So a little bit on.
Speaker B:I like to talk about the box office for.
Speaker B:For a moment here.
Speaker B:This had.
Speaker B:I saw online a budget of 777,000.
Speaker B:Seven.
Speaker B:Yeah, seven.
Speaker B:$777,777.
Speaker B:I don't know if that's what the story is behind that.
Speaker B:I couldn't find anything.
Speaker B:But that's interesting box office.
Speaker B:Now this is a.
Speaker B:Not upon its.
Speaker B:This is cumulative, I think over its lifetime, 2.4 million.
Speaker B:But I do know that upon its initial release, this was a flop.
Speaker B:And I think I saw that it earned 945,000 at the time.
Speaker B:Yeah, big time.
Speaker B: w it did have a re release in: Speaker B:Nobody was really into this movie.
Speaker A:I know it was because of the like, because of that movie.
Speaker A:George Lucas was kind of perceived as a cold sci fi director and it was Francis Ford Coppola that said to him, I dare you to do like a comedy that's fun, that's like light hearted.
Speaker A:And that's where he's like, okay.
Speaker A:And he wrote and he did American Graffiti, which I think Is great, but it's just funny that like, the inception of that came from his colleague being like, you gotta lighten up.
Speaker B:Man's lighting up.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B: And then of course, in: Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But you know, even through all of this, it's only made like 2.4 million over like multiple releases.
Speaker B:This movie is.
Speaker B:It's hard to digest, I guess is.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it's interesting.
Speaker B:And so I guess the first thing know, before we get into the discussion on this, Sam, what.
Speaker B:What is.
Speaker B:What was your initial take?
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker B:You know, I've seen this before and I may have even seen on TV or late night TV in passing every now and then, but you took this in Freshwood New.
Speaker B:My.
Speaker B:What is your.
Speaker A:My initial.
Speaker A:So my initial take, having just watched it for the first time, is.
Speaker A:It's a movie that I appreciate.
Speaker A:I'm always on board for tone poems when a director wants to create a very specific atmosphere.
Speaker A:I appreciate this movie.
Speaker A:I think it's interesting.
Speaker A:What's funny about it to me is that he's so successful at creating a clinical, cold, sterile environment.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:He does achieves that so well that I actually have trouble connecting to it.
Speaker A:And I felt like I was one of the human patience that was like, trapped in that world, like forced to take those pills.
Speaker A:And to me, I appreciate it.
Speaker A:I respect the movie.
Speaker A:But for me, it was like a bit of an endurance watching it because I was just like, oh, my God,
Speaker B:this movie's only eight.
Speaker B:Eight minutes long.
Speaker B:But does it feel like it's over two hours?
Speaker A:Well, that's what's.
Speaker A:What's hilarious.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:It's funny because I.
Speaker A:After, after it was over, I watched Point Break with Keanu Reeves and I was like, I just need to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that was like.
Speaker A:That movie's like two hours and it goes by in a second, so.
Speaker A:But I appreciate thx, so I wouldn't give it a negative review.
Speaker A:It's a movie I respect.
Speaker A:Clearly, George Lucas's talent as a visualist is very apparent and.
Speaker A:And what he can do with the low budget sets, like, there's clearly.
Speaker A:This is a visionary director, I will say, and this is a terrible jab.
Speaker A:But like, I love the prequels and I mean.
Speaker A:Well, I don't.
Speaker A:I mean, they're debatable, but like, the performances that he gets out of the actors in this movie are not bad.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Compared to some wooden performances in future George Lucas productions.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:It's interesting that, like, Young and I. I'll say one thing is that what I like about the short film is I like the short film.
Speaker A:The main character is always running, running, running.
Speaker A:And it's like the whole short film is, like, told through security camera footage.
Speaker A:At the end of the short film, he gets out, and you don't necessarily see trees, but, like, there's a shot of him running into the sunset.
Speaker A:And in that short film that I watched on YouTube, in spite of its grainy quality, I feel that escape.
Speaker A:I feel that, oh, he got out of the system.
Speaker A:And interestingly, in the movie, which, which is like the bigger budget movie, of course, because they had a little bit more budget, they replaced the hallways at the end with him climbing up a ladder.
Speaker A:And when he gets out to the sunlight, it's this really long shot of, like, you know, it's like the sun is in focus.
Speaker A:He's at, he's out of focus, and it's this long shot, but he's just standing there.
Speaker A:It's a minutia pet peeve.
Speaker A:But I like the shot of the character running towards the sunset in the short film better than the final shot of the movie because it's so stylistic that, to me, it does not achieve the relief that I'm looking for.
Speaker A:Like, even if it, I almost would have liked to have seen him run into a forest just to see some, some green or something organic in the movie.
Speaker A:So I appreciate it, but, like, I don't necessarily want to watch it again, but it's not a negative review.
Speaker A:It's an interesting.
Speaker A:I'm not, like, panning this movie.
Speaker A:I'm just saying it's, it's, I, I, I appreciate it.
Speaker A:And it's refreshing to see something that's, like, creamy and shot on film and looks rich.
Speaker A:I mean, it's more interesting than a lot of, you know, CGI Disney plus shows that I see that are so disposable.
Speaker A:At least there's a vision to this movie, you know, so that's cool.
Speaker B:I, I think I agree 100 with everything you're saying, Sam.
Speaker B:I don't have that much more to add on.
Speaker B:I don't want to get too, too much into it because I want to go into some of the details of this, But I agree 100% on that.
Speaker B:The, the, the vision behind this is.
Speaker B:I think I'm very impressed by it.
Speaker B:The world building in here is incredible.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I do think the performances are solid.
Speaker B:We haven't even gotten to some of the cast members.
Speaker B:You Know, I mean, Robert Duvall is, he's a star.
Speaker B: This is THX: Speaker B:And he's, he's giving a very restrained performance and which is interesting because you think of him as such an over the, he gives many over the top performances in his career.
Speaker B:And this is something where maybe outside of his role, like in the Godfather as the consigliere, he is one of the more quieter, most constrained performances, I think of his career maybe the most
Speaker A:it is and his credit with his performance.
Speaker A:Robert Duvall actually sold a lot of moments for me because of his acting.
Speaker A:I mean, he, he, it's like you said, it's quiet, it's restrained.
Speaker A:But he holds the screen so well that him sitting there and looking kind of tortured and like uncomfortable.
Speaker A:He sold that world to me.
Speaker A:Where a lesser actor might have just been in the middle of that frame with like dead eyes.
Speaker A:But Robert Duvall made it look like he was thinking he was suffering, he was confused.
Speaker A:I actually was thought it was a pretty damn good acting job.
Speaker A:Like, you know, and like, because he, he does well with scenes where there's really not much, like a lot of, not a dialogue.
Speaker A:It's like him in front of a monitor taking pills and sitting there.
Speaker A:But like he, he conveyed, I thought he conveyed emotion.
Speaker A:I was impressed.
Speaker B:No, I, I, I agree.
Speaker B:I think that it's, what he's doing actually is quite difficult for, for an actor and because, you know, most of the film he's barely speaking and his facial expressions are minimal.
Speaker B:His body language, it's very stiff and it's controlled and so, so I think, like, I think it's challenging what he's doing.
Speaker B:And you know, instead of, you know, dramatic moments with, with big speeches, you know, the performance, you know, he's working through these tiny shifts in behavior, which I really like to notice that you start noticing small things.
Speaker B:The way his eyes linger a little bit longer, you know, the slight hesitation in his movements.
Speaker B:You slowly see him like, aw.
Speaker B:In this and it's not anything dramatic at all.
Speaker B:So you, you start to realize, you, you, I like the fact that the audience, I feel like is kind of, he's a surrogate for us in a lot of ways.
Speaker B:I feel like we're, I noticed myself seeing him awaken throughout this film in little tiny ways.
Speaker B:And I did appreciate that, that what he was bringing to this performance, because it wasn't, it's, it's not, it's not showy in any way.
Speaker B:And I, I really did enjoy it.
Speaker B:I thought it was quite well done.
Speaker B:What he was bringing.
Speaker B:And we didn't even talk about some of the other actors in here.
Speaker B: Donald Pleasance plays Sen.: Speaker B:He's doing what Donald Pleasance kind of does.
Speaker A:Yeah, he was kind of irritating and like, when he was following Robert Duvall, like, out of the white void and, like, eating food, I actually was in the headspace of Robert Duvall.
Speaker A:Like, this annoying bastard is following me around.
Speaker A:Just go away.
Speaker A:Just go away.
Speaker A:I will say as a quick aside, I'm sure there's, if there's articles written about it somewhere, but I'd be fascinated what Robert Duvall's working relationship was like with George Lucas.
Speaker A:Because Robert Duvall is such a, an actor's actor, and Lucas is, like, notoriously famous for, like, barely speaking, very quiet.
Speaker A:His, his idea of directing and is faster, more intense, or like, slow down.
Speaker A:But, like, he's, he talks very little.
Speaker A:So I'm just interested how the two of them, I just, I just feel like there must have been a moment where somewhere along the line of filming this, Robert Duvall realized he had to internalize things, because I, I can't imagine.
Speaker A:I feel like he'd walk up to George Lucas and be like, so what
Speaker B:is he, what, what is, what is
Speaker A:he feeling in this moment?
Speaker A:And I feel like George would be like, well, you know, the room is small, so he's uncomfortable that he's.
Speaker B:White rooms.
Speaker B:Think about, you're in a white room.
Speaker A:You know, you've been there a while.
Speaker A:It's not pleasant.
Speaker A:Okay, action.
Speaker A:You know, so I mean, I love George Lucas.
Speaker A:I'm just giving him grief.
Speaker A:But, like, I would just be interesting to see because, like, Robert Duvall is as actorly as an actor gets in a good way.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Mentioned the, the great world building that is in this.
Speaker B:I love George Lucas's.
Speaker B:You know, he's really in the very beginning, beginning of this movie.
Speaker B:He's throwing us into this, this strange futuristic environment.
Speaker B:I, I, this is what Lucas is good at.
Speaker B:You know, even before Star wars, you could see the world building.
Speaker B:It's opening with this really, really great set piece where you, where you see everything that's going on with this technology.
Speaker B:You meet Luh, I think, 34, 34, 17.
Speaker B:She's watching the screen.
Speaker B:We, we start to see.
Speaker B:She's kind of the, the, the.
Speaker B:What's the word here?
Speaker B:The, the person that kind of gets everything started with, with this whole thing unraveling where she, you can see that she is being emotionally affected by what she's looking on the screen.
Speaker B:And this is a world where emotions are suppressed.
Speaker B:No one's allowed to have any intimacy.
Speaker B:And she's the catalyst.
Speaker B:That's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker B:She's the catalyst for everything that happens in this film, basically.
Speaker B:But I love these scenes of all these rows of surveillance monitors and everything's displaying different feeds.
Speaker B:You hear there's radio chatter which I'm listening to this.
Speaker B:This is like the same chatter you hear like in moments in Star wars later.
Speaker B:There's so much reminiscent of what he would recycle in later movies.
Speaker A:Love the radio chatter.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker A:That's ambient.
Speaker A:I'm all for atmosphere and world building where like you don't necessarily have to forward the plot every second you can.
Speaker A:And the world building is organic here.
Speaker B:And the phrase you and what keeps getting thrown out there in this is this idea of.
Speaker B:Of consumption is being regulated.
Speaker B:You know that everything is.
Speaker B:Is controlled.
Speaker B:Every the.
Speaker B:Everything's monetized.
Speaker B:Not monetized.
Speaker B:Everything is.
Speaker B:I'm trying blanking on this.
Speaker B:Commoditized.
Speaker B:That's what I meant.
Speaker B:Society is commoditized.
Speaker B:Everything is.
Speaker B:And this is a really fascinating concept.
Speaker B:And I mean everything is commoditized.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:In this world.
Speaker B:It's obviously a totalitarian society.
Speaker B:And this is, I think, a really well done depiction of that.
Speaker B:It's really focused.
Speaker B:And this is what I appreciate about this movie is it's.
Speaker B:Lucas is a visionary director.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:He really knows what he is trying to do in this.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:It is hyper focused now.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:But I don't know if I do think there is some tonal issues with this.
Speaker B:With this movie, which I. I'll get to that in a little bit.
Speaker B:But there's a totalitarian society I find fascinating.
Speaker B:Like sexual relationships are illegal.
Speaker B:Everything about this environment reinforces idea of human impulses have to be suppressed.
Speaker B:I think this is a really cool concept.
Speaker B:What else?
Speaker B:I think the.
Speaker B:The music and the atmosphere of this whole thing is incredibly well done as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's this almost like calm, tranquil instrumental score that almost feels like institutionalized.
Speaker B:You know, I think if like One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest.
Speaker B:While I was watching this movie, there was that vibe to it.
Speaker B:Especially in the prison scene.
Speaker A:Oh, for sure.
Speaker A:It's also refreshing to see world like there's.
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker A:Because it's just.
Speaker A:We just don't see this type of thing these days.
Speaker A:World building atmosphere on such a low budget.
Speaker A:I enjoyed how what he did with lighting and sets some places that Looked like television studios that maybe like had some props put, you know, on the buttons.
Speaker A:But I liked that because if this story was told now with a mega budget, you'd have a shot that like started above trees and then the CGI shot would go through like tunnels in the ground and all this.
Speaker A:And I really, these days, more than effort, more than ever.
Speaker A:And maybe it's just because I'm trying to sort of operate in the low budget world at the moment.
Speaker A:I really like seeing what a director does with a.
Speaker A:Where they have the vision and they achieve the vision.
Speaker A:Where the low budget is not necessarily an inhibiting factor.
Speaker A:It's kind of.
Speaker A:There's something charming about it.
Speaker A:I felt the same way about Christopher Nolan's following because that movie was so cheap.
Speaker A:But that budget worked for that story.
Speaker A:And I feel like for the most part it works for thx.
Speaker A:But there's.
Speaker A:I think his storytelling is good, but there's.
Speaker A:There's some wonky moments where.
Speaker A:And you'll talk about this, where I just feel a kind.
Speaker A:It's so cold that I actually start to drift when I watch it.
Speaker A:And then I have to kind of rein myself back in because it like, it almost puts me in a like dirt.
Speaker A:Like a trance.
Speaker A:Yeah, in an inattentive trance.
Speaker B:My bigger complaint is the connective tissue between the.
Speaker B:The story in the storytelling.
Speaker B:It's the atmosphere, the performances, the world building is there.
Speaker B:As a storyteller, I have some issues with the way that it's presented.
Speaker B:And I think this goes to.
Speaker B:Your point is like, you got to still entertain me though.
Speaker B:You got to still tell a good story.
Speaker B:And this is where like he's.
Speaker B:Maybe he's ex.
Speaker B:Not.
Speaker B:He's expecting the audience to make too big a leap with some of the.
Speaker B:The plot in here that I don't think is conveyed very well in this movie.
Speaker B:And that's the thing like what just happened?
Speaker B:How do we get here?
Speaker B:It's not well conveyed with some of the things that happen in this movie.
Speaker B:And I had to rewind this a of couple several times.
Speaker B:Didn't do too many times because I kind of wanted to get through this movie.
Speaker B:But I did a few times to like figure out how do we get to this point?
Speaker B:Who is this character?
Speaker B:What is the.
Speaker B:Like, I never fully understood the.
Speaker B: d pleasance character, the SCN: Speaker B:What is his role in this?
Speaker B:How power does he just kind of say that?
Speaker A:I thought he was some kind of cop that was monitoring them.
Speaker A:And then when he's like watching the screen and he sees that she doesn't take her pillow.
Speaker A:I thought he was like an, like a, like a organizer or an overseer who was like, oh, they are not behaving the way they should.
Speaker A:But then he goes to jail with them and he's just as like deprived as they are.
Speaker B:And also I'm confused now that we're into his.
Speaker B:His story arc is.
Speaker B:I don't really understand what his motive was.
Speaker B:Like we have.
Speaker B:He wants to switch.
Speaker B:I like the whole idea of partners.
Speaker B:It's a non sexual thing with these.
Speaker B:Or romantic thing with these partners to get together.
Speaker B:What is his obsession with txx?
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker B:Is it a romantic or sexual thing?
Speaker B:Is it just a.
Speaker B:Some sort of envy?
Speaker B:I don't, I don't feel like it's ever really conveyed.
Speaker B:It's left purposely ambiguous.
Speaker B:Which in some ways is kind of neat.
Speaker B:Maybe because he's kind of like this odd creepy guy.
Speaker B:But at the same time I need a little bit more to why he wanted to switch partners and live with T. With the, with like T. I can't say thx.
Speaker B:You know, I just.
Speaker B:I felt like it just kind of like out of nowhere this.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He had these wants but like there's no substance to it and things just happen in this movie without much explanation.
Speaker B:And that kind of like I needed more of the why.
Speaker A:Must have been lobotomized or put out of the circuit.
Speaker A:But she just vanishes and doesn't come back.
Speaker A:And I thought that he was going to try to escape with her.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Which I thought was actually kind of a neat concept.
Speaker B:But it's, but it's like I had to like do a lot of mental gymnastics in this movie trying to figure out what is going on.
Speaker B:And I appreciate that in movies sometimes.
Speaker B:Yeah, but.
Speaker B:But this was a movie where I felt like I was working a little too hard.
Speaker B:And it felt like a little bit better writing could have made it a little easier for me to follow, I guess just to have a bit more
Speaker A:connective tissue because I thought you get to that like white prison where it's just white, like the sea of white.
Speaker A:And I thought that Donald Pleasence was trying to team up with him to escape, which he sort of was.
Speaker A:But then when you see all the other characters, you realize it's a kind of One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest scenario where they're not necessarily firing on all thrusters.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're like, oh great.
Speaker A:Like the plot had some motion.
Speaker A:Now I'm stuck in a room with misfits going Nowhere like yay.
Speaker B:By the way, I did, I did really like the prison scene because it's such a brilliant use of having no budget at all, number one.
Speaker B:It's just how.
Speaker A:I don't know how they did that.
Speaker A:That was my favorite visual thing.
Speaker B:It's a completely white void.
Speaker B:So, you know, it's.
Speaker B:It's a cell without walls or bars and no shadows either.
Speaker B:So no visible boundaries.
Speaker B:So it's a prison of the mind in a lot of ways.
Speaker B:And Lucas, what I also think is cool.
Speaker B:This is, I think one of Lucas's best shot scenes as well because he is doing this in some really fascinating ways.
Speaker B:Characters are often pushed to the edges of the frame in these huge empty vacuums of space dominate the screen.
Speaker B:Which creates this feeling of these characters like lost in infinite emptiness.
Speaker B:And sometimes like it's only like their heads and just the tops of the torsos are like in the bottom of the screen or.
Speaker B:And it's just framed in a very interesting way.
Speaker B:And I think it's very.
Speaker B:I like how that's whole.
Speaker B:That whole part is shot a lot.
Speaker B:And you just get the sense that someone could just go insane in a place like this much faster.
Speaker B:A traditional prison cell.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I, I just love that visual.
Speaker A:When they're escaping, they walk into the white like a fog and they can't see where they've come from or where they're going.
Speaker A:That was kind of cool.
Speaker A:If anything, Lucas is such an interesting.
Speaker A:I almost wish that he said that he doesn't like directing that much.
Speaker A:Where he likes it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:But he really likes post and this and that.
Speaker A:I, I.
Speaker A:When I saw that this non Star Wars George Lucas directed film, it made me kind of wish that he had the directing bug more in the 80s, you know, after Return of the Jedi and just tried his hand at just another some other story because I just, I'm always interested to see what he.
Speaker A:He has such an interesting voice that.
Speaker A:Yeah, just.
Speaker A:It's so weird to see a George Lucas sci fi movie that is not, has not.
Speaker A:Doesn't have like lightsabers in it.
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker B:So this escape out of the prison is.
Speaker B:They run.
Speaker B:Is interesting.
Speaker B:They run into this character.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:Is this where they run into this character called like hologram?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So that this is.
Speaker B:I thought.
Speaker B:I thought was kind of interesting because the.
Speaker B:We passed over something.
Speaker B:I want to talk.
Speaker B:We'll back up to it.
Speaker B:But the.
Speaker B:They run into this hologram.
Speaker B:I'm performer.
Speaker B:Maybe his name is is hologram.
Speaker B:Some his.
Speaker B: s Don Pedro Coley Holgram, SRT: Speaker B:I got his name.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And this.
Speaker B:It's interesting because I think the only African American character in this.
Speaker B:In this movie possibly.
Speaker B:And he says he's a hologram, but he is not, I guess.
Speaker B:But I don't know if he made.
Speaker B:That means that he is a hologram actor.
Speaker B:Because what I do remember from earlier in the movie, when this is the scene we did not talk about, which I think we need to, is the hologram.
Speaker B:I'll call it the.
Speaker B:I looked online.
Speaker B:They call it the.
Speaker B:The master baton sequence.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But basically all the actors in the hologram are African Americans, if you notice that.
Speaker B:But we'll get.
Speaker B:We'll get to that in a moment.
Speaker B:We need to back up to that scene for a moment because that is wild.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:But the.
Speaker B:But he shows up in the scene and he's like the only, like, normal person I feel like in this whole movie, actually.
Speaker B:He's very casual.
Speaker B:He's very, very modern.
Speaker B:I remember.
Speaker B:And what I find found interesting is that for a character who says that he is hologram, and I don't know if that means that he is one or if he's a figment of ths's Their.
Speaker B:Their imagination, but he seems to have the most humanity also of every character in here as well.
Speaker B:So I thought that was kind of interesting that he believes he's one Works.
Speaker B:He works as a hologram.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:It's not really explained.
Speaker B:Again, it's not really explained.
Speaker A:But I did notice how much more cheerful he was than everyone else.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:I was like, hey, this is welcome.
Speaker B:But no, there's another crazy thing at the end of the movie where they're trying to escape.
Speaker B:He's trying to also, like, steal a car as well.
Speaker B:And I don't know why he can't get his car going.
Speaker B:It's kind of.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It feels like funky film.
Speaker A:The weirdest, you know.
Speaker A:You know what.
Speaker A:What I deduced from that and like, the storytelling did not help.
Speaker A:But I thought because he's a hologram and he doesn't have, like, human intuition, he's like, okay, I will drive forward now and the car will take care of itself.
Speaker A:And then it just rams into the wall and blows up.
Speaker A:And I was like, no, that's the end of that guy.
Speaker B:Notice I don't think he's in the car when it crashes.
Speaker A:Yeah, see, I wasn't sure where he was.
Speaker A:I thought he was there.
Speaker A:But I don't know.
Speaker B:Like, so it's, that's the thing.
Speaker B:Like, is I.
Speaker B:Is a spo.
Speaker B:Are we supposed, Is it supposed to be left that's intentionally ambiguous whether he is a hologram?
Speaker B:Is his name hologram?
Speaker B:Does he work as a hologram actor that performs for the, the studio that makes these movies that people, you know, when they're hooked up to that machine, you know, that's, I don't really get.
Speaker B:And it's never really explained.
Speaker B:And maybe that is the idea.
Speaker A:I really feel like this movie could have benefited from one, more character development and two, rewrite.
Speaker A:A rewrite.
Speaker A:If there was a moment, like, where, like, Robert Duvall makes the decision, which he kind of does, like, I am going to escape.
Speaker A:I feel that his escape from the underground world should have been very suspenseful.
Speaker A:And like, so when he finally gets to the surface, it's like this huge relief and payoff for the audience.
Speaker A:But the escape is as clinical as the rest of the movie.
Speaker A:Not that it has to all of a sudden be like, action packed.
Speaker A:I just wanted more narrative thrust where there was a sense of like, oh, he's got to get out of here.
Speaker A:I'm glad he did, but it just kind of happened.
Speaker A:Also, those cars and all that stuff.
Speaker A:Were some of those cars miniatures or something?
Speaker A:Because there's a scene that looks so impressive and modern looking.
Speaker A: f, is this a CGI George Lucas: Speaker A:But there's a scene where a car is, like, weaving in and out of traffic and there's.
Speaker A:And I feel like, yeah.
Speaker A:And I was like, whoa.
Speaker A:How did they.
Speaker A:That it looked like a miniature.
Speaker A:The other shot I thought was really impressive is they have to take a turn and they enter this crowd of just people pushing and shoving.
Speaker B:I love that shot that.
Speaker B:It's like human rapids.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I felt the war.
Speaker A:I really felt the world.
Speaker A:I wish, you know, you talk about a rewrite.
Speaker A:I wish there was something in the script that let you in on his escape so you could enjoy it more.
Speaker A:Like, if they had said something like, well, like, if he steals a map.
Speaker A:Or it's like, oh, if we can get out through this way.
Speaker A:If you knew the, like, the trials that were coming, you might be able to emotionally participate in it.
Speaker A:But instead it's like, and now we're here and now he's driving.
Speaker A:Whatever, you know, I know.
Speaker B:I, I, I totally.
Speaker B:I told, you know, the escape.
Speaker B:Remind me a little bit of like the Running man, where just like these, these like, set pieces, just kind of like a buddy show that have no connective tissue at all.
Speaker B:And all of a sudden we're here.
Speaker B:Now we're here.
Speaker B:Now we're in here.
Speaker B:But like these locations have no like con.
Speaker B:There's nothing that actually connects these spaces to each other.
Speaker B:Like they go through the.
Speaker B:The this.
Speaker B:They're in.
Speaker B:They're in the void.
Speaker B:And then all of a sudden they're in this room of which I love that where they go through the crowds, are going through quarters like human rapids, which is what I called it.
Speaker B:And I think it's wonderful moment there.
Speaker B:But like what is this real?
Speaker B:Is this.
Speaker B:That's what I don't understand is what is it?
Speaker B:Physical space, tangible space.
Speaker B:What is in our head?
Speaker B:And sometimes I feel like are we supposed to be watching this as.
Speaker B:As.
Speaker B:As an exercise?
Speaker B:And, and are we supposed to be taking all this literally?
Speaker B:I feel like we are.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But is this a real underground space?
Speaker B:I think we feel like it's.
Speaker B:He's constantly playing a game with us or, or just is too lazy to just define what this is.
Speaker B:And I feel like it might be the, the latter part of that.
Speaker A:I. I feel like it's supposed to be an actual massive underground like super city with tunnels and things.
Speaker A:But even if there was just a single shot of like a security guard looking at a monitor where there was a map of the place and it's like, we're here, but look, he's going to the coolant tower.
Speaker A:We have to go.
Speaker B:If I could.
Speaker A:If you could just connect.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It almost allows you to connect with it.
Speaker A:And then it's like, nope.
Speaker A:And now a shot of like the keyboard clacking, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah, I like atmosphere.
Speaker A:I don't mind that like, I like that world building stuff.
Speaker A:It just doesn't quite coalesce enough to like have a through line story like in the middle of that.
Speaker A:Let's say if the movie ended halfway through it where Robert Duvall was just walking down the hallway and he got like killed or split in half, my emotional reaction would be, huh?
Speaker A:You know, like I did.
Speaker A:I wasn't like, I'm not engaged, like, whatever, you know, While still appreciating the filmmaking.
Speaker B:What was I gonna say?
Speaker B:The we're getting.
Speaker B:So we learned about luh's fate sort of.
Speaker B:And I had to really piece this together where THX discovers that I guess she's been.
Speaker B:They say that she's been consumed, but it seems like her identif.
Speaker B:Her identity has been recycled as.
Speaker B:What do they call.
Speaker B:I forgot they gave Her a name, but basically she's been recycled and repurposed in the system.
Speaker B:And then it shows a shot of like a.
Speaker B:Almost like a fetus.
Speaker B:So I think she's been.
Speaker B:That's what they mean by like, repurposed.
Speaker B:So she's been disposed of and she is coming back as another test tube baby or something.
Speaker B:Again, I don't know how it.
Speaker B:How it all works, but that's what it seems like.
Speaker B:But it just comes out of nowhere.
Speaker B:And there's not much explanation to how this whole infrastructure system is working.
Speaker A:I would have liked a little bit more information as to what their jobs were.
Speaker A:I knew they were, like, repairing robots or something and, like, they had to do precision work.
Speaker A:But I wasn't even sure if Robert Duvall was supposed to be human or not, because he's in there repairing these things.
Speaker A:But they're giving him instructions like he's some kind of brainless worker.
Speaker A:They're like, oh, and move to the left and don't forget to do this and don't forget to do that.
Speaker A:And it's like, does he know his job or does he just blindly receive instructions?
Speaker A:And clearly he was in a bad mood because he goes back to his, like, cell and of all the stations of, like, entertainment that he can watch, he chooses to watch the video of a copy, like, beating a guy.
Speaker A:And he's just sitting there watching it.
Speaker A:And I'm like, okay, I guess time out.
Speaker B:I think, though he preface before that is.
Speaker B:Is the scene that we did not talk about.
Speaker B:And that is the.
Speaker B:The hologram entertainment scene.
Speaker B:Or jokingly, I'll refer to it as the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The master baton sequence, where this is.
Speaker B:This is like a very surreal moment here where he's watching holographic projections of naked dancers and all the performers, like, again, or African American.
Speaker B:But the visuals are very strange.
Speaker B:And then it becomes more.
Speaker B:And what's happening is, though this is what I was talking about, how everything is commoditized and even, you know, human semen basically is what's going on here.
Speaker B:That he's hooked up to a machine that's extracting this.
Speaker B:Not to get too vulgar here, but that's what's happening in this.
Speaker A:Barely registered for me.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker A:But it does now.
Speaker B:Yeah, if you think about.
Speaker B:That's what's happening in this scene.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:But what's hysterical is that while he's watching these naked people dancing interplaces, this is like political broadcast about fleeing inmates, which is a real turn on.
Speaker B:And then, you know, as.
Speaker B:As a nightcapper he's, you know, there's this violent, you know, scene of police beating, you know, which is.
Speaker B:Wow, that's a real pallet cleanser after that, you know, which I think is just hysterical.
Speaker B:But that's what his experience was during that.
Speaker B:That is what the government mandated, you know, experience is, you know, for this act I thought was so funny.
Speaker A:It was funny.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's a very odd scene again.
Speaker A:And like, that is the point.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:It's not like you gotta bring it down.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:It's clear to me.
Speaker A:But when I was watching it, I sort of got that impression, but I was like, I'm not quite sure what this.
Speaker A:What he's doing here.
Speaker B:Well, exactly.
Speaker B:There is not.
Speaker B:It is not.
Speaker B:I. I did rewind it to watch this again because what is going on is not clear.
Speaker B:But I. I did watch that scene again.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Oh, oh, yeah, there is like, this.
Speaker B:Oh, it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:You can see what's going on.
Speaker A:I remember that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And during this whole time, this is when LUH is tampering with his pills as well.
Speaker B:So that's what is.
Speaker B:Starts to awaken or suppress, awaken ths's emotions and his sexual desire and all that.
Speaker B:So that's what kind of like, throws.
Speaker B:Everything gets this movie started when that happens.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So yeah, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, for a movie about the repressed human spirit and, like, there.
Speaker A:It needs some emotional catharsis or breakthrough.
Speaker A:And the shot of him climbing up the ladder and getting out to the daylight just wasn't enough for me even.
Speaker A:I would have even been happy if there was 20 more seconds of him, like, walking into the woods.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I just wanted.
Speaker A:Or, like, looking or.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I just, like.
Speaker A:I get the.
Speaker A:I feel like the point of the movie is to be repulsed by that society and look within yourself and be like, well, no, as humans, we have a lot to offer and we should be organic and we should communicate our thoughts and we should, like, have love in this.
Speaker A:It's a good point.
Speaker A:It's just like the movie is so clinical that it just.
Speaker A:It's like I. I almost feel like there's moments in that film where I feel like Leonardo DiCaprio in the Aviator as when.
Speaker A:As Howard Hughes, when, like, he's sitting there and, like, someone takes food from his plate and it throws him off and it makes him twitch.
Speaker A:Like the movie.
Speaker A:Some of these scenes, they make me, like, I'm sitting there like, oh, I feel uncomfortable and there's these tubes and I like, like, it made me like feel close at least, you know, I mean, that's.
Speaker A:It had an emotional effect in some way.
Speaker B:I guess the last thing I'll just bring up is the final chase scene, which I thought was pretty visually mostly exciting.
Speaker B:Although you can tell Lucas was probably working with a very limited stretch of tunnel, filming it repeatedly from different angles to stretch this out.
Speaker B:It goes on kind of long for what it is.
Speaker B:Still though, the.
Speaker B:I love the sound design of this scene.
Speaker B:I love this, the.
Speaker B:The sound.
Speaker B:The cars.
Speaker B:The car makes in this.
Speaker B:Those cycles make.
Speaker B:We haven't even talked about these, these robot cops, which I think the design of those cops are pretty cool, by the way.
Speaker A:And I do love the cars because it's like you.
Speaker A:Lucas has always loved fast cars and speed.
Speaker A:So you see that scene and it's like the beginning of like, you know that just around the corner, like drag racing in American Graffiti is on its way.
Speaker A:X wings are gonna race in Star Wars.
Speaker A:Like, so it's like you see the seed of.
Speaker A:Of the racing joy implanted in that movie.
Speaker A:And I'm like, ah, that's George Lucas.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Did you hear.
Speaker B:Did you hear the, the.
Speaker B:The talk over the radio where they say they think they ran over Wookiees on the expressway?
Speaker A:Yeah, I did.
Speaker A:And I was like,
Speaker B:yeah.
Speaker A:I want to see the version though, before those like CGI monkeys were added to.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What did they look like before that?
Speaker B:What was that?
Speaker A:It's supposed to be like the.
Speaker A:There's a name for that.
Speaker A:I googled it, but it's like the, the dwellers.
Speaker A:The dwellers or the cave dwellers.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker B:I think it's a shell.
Speaker B:Shell dwellers or something like that.
Speaker B:Which.
Speaker B:That looks so bad.
Speaker B:Oh, I don't know.
Speaker A:Yeah, that was.
Speaker A:That like, was like, oof.
Speaker A:That kind of threw me off there, that moment.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I know you.
Speaker B:You've expressed your kind of dissatisfaction with the final scene of him kind of climbing up the ladder.
Speaker B:I, you know, it doesn't really bother me that much.
Speaker B:It's just that we don't really know what he's escaping to.
Speaker B:We don't write anything about the outer world.
Speaker B:He's escaped the system, but what has he escaped into?
Speaker B:We don't hear, you know, so we don't really.
Speaker B:It's just kind of left kind of like open ended.
Speaker A:Yeah, I guess I wanted to be a little bit more cathartic.
Speaker A:Even though this is a totally different movie.
Speaker A:Like at the end of the Truman show when Jim Carrey like gets to the door on the wall.
Speaker A:And he's like, good afternoon, good evening.
Speaker A:And he goes out into the world.
Speaker A:You're like, yeah, he made it.
Speaker B:Woo.
Speaker A:And in this one I was like, well, he, he got away, but maybe the ups.
Speaker A:Maybe the world above ground is just as terrible too.
Speaker B:So I have, he might, he might, he might be like cooking his brains, you know, at that moment.
Speaker B:We don't.
Speaker A:Eaten by a lizard or something, you know, you don't know what's out there.
Speaker B:Oh, well, you think we've.
Speaker B:I think we've done it.
Speaker A:Now the last thing I'll say is what happened to Donald Pleasance?
Speaker A:Where did he go?
Speaker A:If I remember, disappeared.
Speaker A:He just.
Speaker A:But then there's a shot of him.
Speaker A:He gets, he gets separated from them in the crowd.
Speaker A:Then it cuts back to him walking around in like tunnels.
Speaker A:I'm like, what are you doing, buddy?
Speaker A:Where are you going?
Speaker A:And then he like, he just, he's gone.
Speaker A:I was like, all right, I hope everything works out.
Speaker A:I don't know what you're up to,
Speaker B:but yeah, I don't remember it.
Speaker B:I don't remember any conclusion to his character.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:All right, all right, well, let's take a quick break.
Speaker B:I'll do a little housekeeping.
Speaker B:We'll come back with our final thought ratings and verdict.
Speaker A:Tim, I realize Harry's been around a long time.
Speaker A:I'm not saying that his ways are
Speaker B:antiquated, but it helped have a car
Speaker A:that handled properly and didn't blow engines.
Speaker B:Well, if he was, wouldn't get excited
Speaker A:and over rev the son of a bits of engine wouldn't blow.
Speaker A:Now, Cole, when you shift the gear and that little needle on the tack
Speaker B:goes into the red and reads 9,000 rpm, that's bad.
Speaker A:It's also my fault if the tires blow.
Speaker A:If you ask this old fart, well, hell yes, it's your fault.
Speaker B:There's 40 other vultures out there who managed to finish the race on their tires.
Speaker A:You see Dar Waltrip, you see, using up his tires.
Speaker A:There's nothing I can't do with the race car.
Speaker B:All right, before we continue, we'd like to thank you for turning, tuning, turning, tuning into the show.
Speaker B:We really appreciate you listening and we'd love to hear your feedback.
Speaker B:If you agree with our opinions or disagree them, Agree with them.
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Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:And that handle is back to the frame rate.
Speaker A:And Ellie's gonna post something on Tick Tock.
Speaker A:Just kidding.
Speaker A:Inside.
Speaker B:She might.
Speaker B:She might.
Speaker B:She has access.
Speaker B:I think she might have access to the Tick Tock page.
Speaker B:We should probably change that password, huh?
Speaker B:Yeah.
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Speaker B:That would be so cool.
Speaker B:We might even play it on the show.
Speaker B:That'd be awesome.
Speaker A:And we're doing well here in the bunker.
Speaker A:You know, season three, the apocalypse is rough outside.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you know, the Ellie and B, they went out to get food and
Speaker B:we haven't heard from them.
Speaker A:I hope they're okay.
Speaker A:They might be alive out there, but you have to understand the air is so polluted that we just got to stay here.
Speaker A:So season three, we're holding down the fort.
Speaker A:We don't know what's out there, but we're trying.
Speaker B:You can Visit us at backtotheframerate.com where you can find all of our episodes across the dozens of podcast platforms.
Speaker B:Okay, it's time for our ratings and our verdict.
Speaker B: hase any last thoughts on THX: Speaker A:Sam I liked Donald Pleasant's goofiness, even though I have no idea what his character wanted or what he was doing, but it was a pleasure to see him.
Speaker B:Okay, and I'll just say I'm not entirely sure that this movie fully holds together as a coherent film.
Speaker B:I, I, like I said, it's packed with fascinating ideas.
Speaker B:There are moments of brilliant world building, striking visual concepts, and, and some great, just basic, great science fiction themes.
Speaker B:But at the same time, the tone of this movie, I think there's a lot of unevenness to it and it often feels like a collection of, you know, concepts that never fully quite developed to a unified story.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But here's what I do, I think what's interesting compared to, you know, you compare this other science fiction films over the same era and you got movies like Logan's Run or even like Westworld Silent Running.
Speaker B:You know, those films may be a lot campier and rough around the edges.
Speaker B:Their performances and production values, I'd say are much more inconsistent.
Speaker B:But those movies tend to know what they are.
Speaker B:And I think that this movie, on the other hand, feels like a collection of undercooked ideas rather than than a fully realized vision.
Speaker B:I mean, the vision is there as far as what Lucas wanted, but it's not, it's not coming together.
Speaker B:And there's a lot I admire about this, but it just is not coming together as cleanly as it could have.
Speaker B:Still, this is very ambitious and fascinating early work from Lucas and you can clearly see the seeds of a filmmaker, of the film filmmaker he would eventually become.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:I hear you.
Speaker B:I wish.
Speaker A:I honestly feel like they could have done maybe a few more drafts of the script.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or just a little bit more.
Speaker A:And before we move on, did you want to say something about the, the, the way the police look or about the scene when he's arrested or you'd mentioned that.
Speaker A:I don't know if we, if you want to say.
Speaker B:But the one thing is, I remember when Robert Duvall was building them, did you notice that they look just like a C3PO unit?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I have nothing more to say about this movie.
Speaker A:It's amazing how for a movie that's just cool.
Speaker A:It's amazing how warm American Graffiti and Star wars are like only a couple of years after that.
Speaker A:Like American Graffiti is right around the corner.
Speaker A:And like seeing this movie, it's.
Speaker A:I would, you would not expect those warm hearted classics to come out next.
Speaker A:You would think it'd be more like cold stuff.
Speaker A:Maybe that's why it was Francis that was like, hey, try this.
Speaker A:But I, it just.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Interesting though.
Speaker B:I am giving this three out of five stars still just for a lot of the, the positive things that I gave it.
Speaker B:That's the best I can give it.
Speaker B:But that's, that's, I think a, A very good rating considering some of the, this movie shortcomings.
Speaker B:But that's what I'm gonna give it and, but no, I am not putting this in the vault.
Speaker A:I, I agree.
Speaker A:I was, you know, I was gonna, I was gonna give it two and a half, but I will be generous too and give it the three because I, I do applaud the effort and in the days of sequels and spinoffs and properties being done again and again and again, I'm all for original, fascinating ideas.
Speaker A:So it's a unique, fascinating movie.
Speaker A:Could be have more of emotional connection to it, but an honorable three stars.
Speaker A:And I would not put it in the vault either.
Speaker B:That's such.
Speaker A:For me, that's such a no brainer.
Speaker A:It's just like, nope.
Speaker B:All right, well, goodbye.
Speaker B:Oh, a double
Speaker A:smashed.
Speaker B:I don't know how that happened, but,
Speaker A:you know, but I was gonna go to the.
Speaker A:Toshi station to pick up some power converters.
Speaker B:All right, well, it is time for recommendation shelf.
Speaker A:Sir.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Are either one of these any good?
Speaker A:I don't watch movies.
Speaker B:Well, have you heard anything about either one of them?
Speaker B:I find it's best to stay out
Speaker A:of other people's affairs.
Speaker B:You mean you haven't heard anybody say anything about either one of these?
Speaker B:Nope.
Speaker A:Well, what about these two?
Speaker B:Oh, they suck.
Speaker A:I just want to cut in King Conan, you know, with me as a king who is calling the barbarian the.
Speaker A:The director of the Tom Cruise Mission Impossible movies might be making this movie with me.
Speaker A:I'm very excited.
Speaker A:Goodbye.
Speaker B:Okay, thank you.
Speaker B:All right, our recommendation shelf this episode is dystopian societies and ties in very well with our topic tonight, our film.
Speaker B:And these are.
Speaker B:These are great pairings.
Speaker B:I saw what you have in store for us and Sam, I'll give you the opportunity to begin here because I love your pick.
Speaker A: dren of men, Alfonso Cuaron's: Speaker A:I love this movie.
Speaker A:It is of course a dystopian society set in the not too distant future where women's fertility has ended.
Speaker A:No one is is pregnant and society is dying.
Speaker A:And this is a movie about Clive Owen discovering the first pregnant woman in many, many years.
Speaker A:And he has to protect her and help her escape to the ocean off the coast of England to get to this ship called the Tomorrow, which is essentially a secret society that's going to protect her.
Speaker A:But love love this movie.
Speaker A:Talk about emotional connection.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, unlike THX this movie I find riveting, suspenseful.
Speaker A:I really care what happens to Clive Owens characters and the other characters.
Speaker A:Someone described this film, a reviewer as the anti Blade Runner.
Speaker A:And even though it has nothing to do with Blade Runner, I like this vision of the future in this movie.
Speaker A:The way it's shot, the way it looks, how Alfonso Ciaran does a lot of handheld blocking with lots of people in the scene.
Speaker A:The action sequences in this movie, particularly a scene involving a car when they cross through this checkpoint and get attacked.
Speaker A:At the time when I saw that in the theater, I'd never seen anything like it.
Speaker A:This movie really is quality to me.
Speaker A:So I, if you haven't seen it, highly recommend it.
Speaker A:Children of Men, one of Alfonso Quran's best.
Speaker A:I think he did this right after Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban and he was just like on creatively on fire making this movie.
Speaker A:I might be.
Speaker A:I always mispronounce his name.
Speaker B:I apologize.
Speaker B:But yeah, yeah, I don't think he's made a bad movie, but, yeah.
Speaker B:No, it's funny.
Speaker B:The Children of Men.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Do you know what, what year that movie is supposed to take place in?
Speaker A: Not: Speaker B:No, the year next year.
Speaker A:2027.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:You know what's funny?
Speaker A:What's terrifying about that?
Speaker A:And I won't get into it, but the movie's all about, like, deportations and immigration.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, my God.
Speaker A:No,
Speaker B:no, I didn't know that off the top of my head.
Speaker B:I, I just looked.
Speaker A:But, yeah, crazy.
Speaker B:That's a great pick, Sam.
Speaker B:And, and how prescient that movie is now.
Speaker B:And, and, and, and how well that ties into tonight's discussion as well.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yes, great.
Speaker A:I think of that as a new movie and it's 20 fraking years old.
Speaker A:Almost like I.
Speaker A:My perception of time is absolutely warped.
Speaker A:But that's another story for a different day because I'm terrified by the passage of time.
Speaker A:Terrified.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:So we'll get to my recommendation.
Speaker B:Shelf pick.
Speaker B:So, you know, the 90s were a glorious time for cinema.
Speaker B:And I think this might be, like, I don't know how all.
Speaker B:I think all my picks, recommendation stuff are mostly from the 90s, I think.
Speaker B:But, you know, and I think the main reason was because it was sandwiched between two distinct periods of Hollywood.
Speaker B:It came after the 80s, when studios were still, in a way, beholden to, like, this archaic system of making movies, following trends, which is why so many movies from that period feel like they have.
Speaker B:They've aged poorly.
Speaker B: But in the: Speaker B:And Dark City is a result of that.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I haven't seen that in so long.
Speaker A:That's a quality.
Speaker A:I mean, I liked it a lot
Speaker B:because let me tell you, there are no Rufus Sewell action figures or spinoff TV shows depicting year one of Frank Burn Bumstead's, you know, the hardened, cynical inspector portrayed by William Hurt.
Speaker B:You know, there's nothing like that.
Speaker B:But there should been.
Speaker A:It should have been.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But Dark City, you know, if anyone hasn't seen it, is one of the true gems of the 90s.
Speaker B:It's a real visual feast.
Speaker B:I'd say.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B: lear influences of, like, the: Speaker B:Maltese Falcon is huge influence on it, but it's also science fiction.
Speaker B:And a paying.
Speaker B:Is paying tribute to, like, Metropolis with nods to German Expressionism, Blade Runner, total Blade Runner, like, homages.
Speaker B:And, you know, I'm being purposely cagey about the plot because I know if you know this movie, you know, But I want everyone who has not seen Dark City to stop this podcast right now and go watch it tonight.
Speaker A:I might do that because I remember watching it, but it has been so long.
Speaker A:Like, I saw it in high school at a party, and so it's like kind of a blurry memory because, like, there was music.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, I have to give this film justice.
Speaker A:So I'm excited.
Speaker A:I may.
Speaker A:I may watch that tonight.
Speaker A:No joke.
Speaker B:So good.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:It's available to stream for free on Tubi and on Canopy, which I keep telling everyone is a great free service.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:You can get through your local library.
Speaker B:And I have this over here.
Speaker B:We're not doing video right now, but over here, I got my.
Speaker B:You can get.
Speaker B:For collectors out there.
Speaker B:Arrow put out an incredible 4k that I have that's totally worth it with ton.
Speaker B:With, like, it has, like, five commentary tracks on it and tons of bonus features.
Speaker B:It's a great package that's available as well.
Speaker B:So Dark City is maybe my.
Speaker B:Probably my top five films from the 90s and definitely my top 25 of all time.
Speaker B:So, yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's my pick.
Speaker A:Now I'm super intrigued.
Speaker A:I'm embarrassed.
Speaker A:Like, I remember the movie, but I just, like.
Speaker A:Actually, you know what?
Speaker A:I don't remember that well.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:No, no, I don't remember it well.
Speaker A:Like, I have to see it.
Speaker A:Like, I remember.
Speaker A:I remember the feeling of liking it, but that's it.
Speaker B:All right, we're gonna take one more break.
Speaker B:We're gonna come back with another new little segment that we threw together.
Speaker A:My wife is crying upstairs.
Speaker A:I hear cars coming to the house.
Speaker A:That's a mine.
Speaker A:I think you should tell your dad what everyone seems to know.
Speaker B:I didn't tell Mama anything.
Speaker B:I was about to come up and wake you just now and tell you,
Speaker A:but you needed a drink first.
Speaker A:Now you've had your drink.
Speaker A:They shot Sonny on the causeway.
Speaker B:He's dead.
Speaker B:Okay, we are heading into a new segment, which I'm just throwing at you, Sam.
Speaker B:Okay, you ready?
Speaker B:Yeah, I got the music cue for it.
Speaker B:We're going to be doing this until the release of Heat 2, but we're going to have news updates.
Speaker A:So I think I think that the full name of Heat, too, it should be promoted where it says in Robert De Niro's voice, he's like, heat two.
Speaker A:You Heat two.
Speaker A:But he's.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:A week ago, Christian Bale has been added to the cast.
Speaker A:I keep hearing about this.
Speaker A:My whole Facebook feed is all, like, rumors of this and this project, that project.
Speaker A:I'm like, you know, I wish my algorithm would, like, let me know what friends are doing, because I exist in a digital void.
Speaker B:This sounds.
Speaker B:This is official, though, that he signed up.
Speaker B:This sound, this.
Speaker B:Every single, you know, entertainment news outlet has reported this.
Speaker B:This sounds like it's definitely happening.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Christian Bale is on board with a cast which includes Leonardo DiCaprio.
Speaker B:We got Adam Driver, Austin Butler and Bradley Cooper, I think are the confirmed people.
Speaker B:And what else we got here?
Speaker B:And it looks like this is scheduled to begin filming on September.
Speaker B:No, August 3rd is the scheduled shooting date for this.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:This looks like it's really happening.
Speaker A:I'm curious because I know the Heat 2 Michael Mann novel came out and, And.
Speaker A:And it.
Speaker A:Actually, I've.
Speaker A:All I know is that the story jumps around in time.
Speaker A:It goes back to the past and into the future.
Speaker A:So I'm interested.
Speaker B:What we got here is.
Speaker B:It says that the part of the story picks up immediately after the events of the original movie, following Chris.
Speaker B:How do you say, Chris Harris, which is the Val Kilmer character, as he escapes Los Angeles and head international underworld.
Speaker B:His journey takes him through South America in Southeast Asia, where it becomes estranged with a powerful drug cartel.
Speaker B: other storyline jumps back to: Speaker B:The character made the Al Pacino character, and he is hunting serial killer Otis Wardell.
Speaker B:And this section of the movie, I guess, is where the.
Speaker B:The Vincent character actually almost comes into contact with the.
Speaker B:The character.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:Was it the Neil character?
Speaker B:The Robert De Niro character?
Speaker B: come close to meeting back in: Speaker B:So, yeah, we'll see.
Speaker B: mps forward again to the year: Speaker B:Back again.
Speaker B:So this.
Speaker B:This is jumping around inside the forward.
Speaker A:Where is the Val Kilmer timeline and older Val Kilmer or younger Val Kilmer?
Speaker B:It's an older Val Kilmer and an older.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And a younger Al Pacino.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:So we're trying to.
Speaker B:Everyone's speculating.
Speaker B:Christian Bale, he is he.
Speaker B:Is he playing the.
Speaker B:The younger Al Pacino.
Speaker A:I was going to say Austin Butler looks Val Kilmerish, but he's too young.
Speaker A:For old Val Kilmer.
Speaker B:That's this cast.
Speaker B:This is so weird.
Speaker B:Yeah, like, I can't figure.
Speaker B:So Michael Mann has confirmed that there's definitely going to be aging and de.
Speaker B:Aging technology.
Speaker B:There's gonna be a lot of that.
Speaker B:Which sounds expensive.
Speaker B:Yeah, so there's gonna be a lot of that.
Speaker B:And so I just hope we don't get like, you know, old CGI character.
Speaker B:Like I think, like, like, I don't know, like I'm scared we're gonna get like a Val Kil performance that he never gave or you know, something like that.
Speaker B:You know, they could do that.
Speaker B:And that's what.
Speaker B:I don't know is gonna.
Speaker B:What they got in store for us.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm really curious, but we'll.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker B:But that is what some of the.
Speaker B: rd of: Speaker B:Cinematographer for this is Dion BB Baby.
Speaker B:Is that how you say it?
Speaker B:Which is not who I would have pegged for this, but he's worked with a man on Collateral in Miami Vice.
Speaker B:So this is somebody who he's worked with before, but not, you know, necessarily.
Speaker A:So that in hearing that news, that makes me think that he's gonna go fully with some kind of digital camera.
Speaker A:Like, I mean, lots of movies shoot digitally, but like in, in Collateral he was experimenting with like.
Speaker A:So that makes me think that this movie is not, is not going to be shot on film, obviously.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Because when I tell you this guy's other credits, which is Edge of Tomorrow, Mary Poppins Returns, Gemini man and Little Mermaid.
Speaker B:So this guy.
Speaker B:Yeah, he is, he's.
Speaker B:He's pushing.
Speaker B:Like when I think of Gemini man also, which I was that John Woo was it?
Speaker B:I think it was.
Speaker B:Not John Wu.
Speaker B:Not John Woo.
Speaker B:Angley me.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Oh my God.
Speaker B:Getting racially profiled, I'm screwed now.
Speaker B:But yes, that was so I'm.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, there's, there's.
Speaker B:It's a double edged sword with some of the, the work I think this guy has done.
Speaker B:But anyways, that is what's going on with Heat too.
Speaker B:We need a good title for this segment because as this movie gets closer to production, I want to have tabs on this because this is.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm really curious about it.
Speaker A:I. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker B:I was looking at this original cast for Heat and it is pr.
Speaker B:It's unbelievable, the talent that was behind this movie.
Speaker B:We had Al Pacino, Robert De Niro, Val Kilmer, John Voight, Tom Sizemore, Amy Brenneman, Ashley Judd, McKeltie Williamson, Ted Levine, Dennis Haysbert, William Fichner, Natalie Portman, Tom Noonan, Hank Azaria, Danny Trejo.
Speaker B:I forgot Danny Trejo was in that movie.
Speaker B:Henry Rollins, Tone Loke, Jeremy Piven, and Xander Berkeley were in this movie.
Speaker B:It's crazy.
Speaker B:What they.
Speaker A:Heat is.
Speaker A:Is one of those movies that I loved it when I first saw it, and I watch it over the years, and it just gets better and better.
Speaker A:Like, it's just.
Speaker A:Just so well done.
Speaker B:It's been A good probably 12, 13 years since I've seen it.
Speaker B:I think I might be due.
Speaker B:If it wasn't three hours long, I'd start it tonight.
Speaker B:But no, not happening.
Speaker B:Anyways, you watch Dark City this week, I'll watch Heat, and all will be good.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Well, I think that brings us to the end of our show.
Speaker B:This first episode of this Robert Duvall retrospective, I think is a.
Speaker B:Was a good entryway.
Speaker B:I'm excited.
Speaker B:Oh, by the way, calling this Duval in, which I'm proud of.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:I really like DU all in.
Speaker B: ing to do tender Mercies from: Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:And I have not seen the movie,
Speaker B:and I haven't either.
Speaker B:And this is the.
Speaker B:I think this is a movie that was a big influence on Crazy Heart, the movie that Jeff Bridges won as well.
Speaker B:So there's, I think, a big tie in.
Speaker B:These would be, I think, a great double feature, I hear.
Speaker B:And I like Crazy Heart a lot, so I am really looking forward to this.
Speaker B:We will do that probably in a month or several weeks from now.
Speaker B:We'll.
Speaker B:We'll get to it.
Speaker B:When we get to it, this is going to be our theme, but we're going to try doing this on a monthly basis because podcasting is hard and we're busy people, so we'll see.
Speaker A:Season three is incredible because this whole season is directed by Michael Mann, whereas if you go back and listen to our first season, it was directed by Tom Shadiako.
Speaker A:We're moving up.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And that.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think that does it.
Speaker B:Sam, any last words?
Speaker A:Be joyous, be hopeful, and if you have problems in life, don't worry about it.
Speaker A:Tomorrow's another day.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:Okay, then we'll end on that.
Speaker B:All right, I have a great night, everybody.
Speaker B:Wait, wait.
Speaker B:I can't just do that.
Speaker B:I have to actually do my closing.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, I am so happy when I don't know what I'm doing anyway, when I We do the same so infrequently.
Speaker B:That is our show for this week.
Speaker B:Back to the Frame Rate is part of the Wested Media Podcast Network.
Speaker B:Special thanks to Brian Ellsworth for our show opening.
Speaker B:On behalf of all of us, we bid you farewell from the Fallout Shelter.
Speaker B:If you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and leave a rating and review on Apple Podcast.
Speaker B:Spotify, Spotify, Spotify, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker B:You will always find all of our episodes@backtotheframerate.com this is the end of our transmission.
Speaker B:Back to the Frame Rate.
Speaker B:Signing off.
Speaker A:Want you to know it's over.
Speaker A:Well, bye.
