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Episode 72

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Published on:

24th Jun 2024

Lilies (1996): A Hidden Gem of the Toronto New Wave

Join us as we wrap up our June Pride retrospective with the 1996 film "Lilies," directed by John Greyson. We're thrilled to have screenwriter and playwright Duncan Pflaster as our special guest. While "Lilies" might be the most obscure film we've covered on the podcast, it's definitely worth a watch!

Find Duncan Pflaster online - duncanpflaster.com

Time Stamps

01:47 Introduction to Special Guest, Duncan Pflaster

19:23 Duncan's thoughts of 'Lilies

21:23 Bee's thoughts of 'Lilies'

24:22 Nathan's thoughts of 'Lilies'

53:10 Save or Purge!

55:58 Movie Pairings and Recommendations

01:02:45 Weekly Highlights

01:13:11 Final Thoughts and Farewell

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Mentioned in this episode:

100th Episode Spectacular Promo

Transcript
Speaker:

In the dying embers of human existence, as the asteroid, a behemoth the size of

Speaker:

Texas, hurdles relentlessly toward Earth, the world braces for an apocalyptic end.

Speaker:

Deep beneath the bunker, a refuge plunges into the bowels of the Earth.

Speaker:

Hear the chosen gather.

Speaker:

Their purpose clear to preserve the very soul of our civilization, the 35 and 70

Speaker:

millimeter prints that encapsulate the magic, the emotion, and the dreams of

Speaker:

generations past these masterpieces, each frame, a testament to the human spirit,

Speaker:

are Carefully cataloged and cradled in the cavernous confines of the bunker.

Speaker:

Perhaps there was room for more for friends and the family yearning for

Speaker:

salvation, but sacrifices must be made.

Speaker:

The movie nerds stand united.

Speaker:

The keepers of a flame promising a future where the art of storytelling

Speaker:

endures transcending the boundaries of time and space, God help us all.

Nathan:

Welcome to back to the framerate part of the Western media podcast network.

Nathan:

Join us as we watch and discuss films on VOD and streaming platforms, deliberating

Nathan:

on whether each one is worthy of salvation or destined for destruction in the face

Nathan:

of the impending asteroid apocalypse.

Nathan:

You can find more episodes of this podcast on backtotheframerate.

Nathan:

com where you can subscribe and share our shows and find us on

Nathan:

our socials at backtotheframerate.

Nathan:

I am Nathan Shure and accompanying me is the extraordinary movie

Nathan:

maven, Brianna Budworth.

Nathan:

Sam is out on assignment this week, I guess we'll say.

Nathan:

Boo, I know.

Nathan:

So he will not be joining us, but we have a very special guest.

Nathan:

Joining us is screenwriter and playwright Duncan Flaster.

Nathan:

How are you?

Duncan:

Good.

Duncan:

I'm happy to be here.

Nathan:

Let me say your last name, right?

Duncan:

Yes, it's Flaster.

Duncan:

Okay.

Nathan:

I, it's, it's funny thing is I've known you.

Nathan:

We've been like Facebook friends for ages, but I don't think I've

Nathan:

ever had to say your name out loud.

Nathan:

. Duncan: Yeah.

Nathan:

We've only met in person like once or twice.

Nathan:

Once or twice.

Nathan:

I was in a play, a small part in a play in Lenny Schwartz's Play Me Three.

Nathan:

And I remember you were, we met down in New York at what theater was it?

Nathan:

And I forget.

Bee:

Oh, Lenny's the Great connector.

Nathan:

I mean, when you have like 5, 000 Facebook friends

Nathan:

and just, yeah, he's great.

Nathan:

I mean, he brings us, he brings us all together.

Nathan:

But yeah, he was he was on the show a couple of weeks ago.

Nathan:

We did our Furiosa review and he was on for that.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

Thank you for joining us, Duncan.

Nathan:

And.

Nathan:

I, I have a couple of questions for you, but first I just want

Nathan:

you to introduce yourself.

Nathan:

Tell us who you are, what you do, what are you about?

Duncan:

I'm, my name is Duncan Flaster with P F L A S T E

Duncan:

R I'm mainly a playwright.

Duncan:

I've written 40 plays, mainly indie in, I live in New York I've had a

Duncan:

couple movies out there, Strapped for Danger and Strapped for Danger 2 and

Duncan:

I've written on a couple of others.

Duncan:

And yeah, that's about it.

Nathan:

I've seen those.

Nathan:

They, they, they are a riot.

Nathan:

They are, they are a lot of fun.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

Again, for a common mutual friend of ours, Richard Griffin, who I have

Nathan:

worked with as well those movies.

Nathan:

So yes.

Nathan:

Fantastic.

Nathan:

And anything that you are.

Nathan:

What are you working on right now that you want to, you mentioned?

Duncan:

Well the aforementioned Richard Griffin has put together

Duncan:

ongoing series called Pansy Vision.

Duncan:

Yes.

Duncan:

It's a fake history of gay movies throughout the world.

Duncan:

Oh, that sounds

Bee:

fun.

Duncan:

He got a bunch of his favorite writers together to write vignettes

Duncan:

from different decades, imagining what it would be like if there were

Duncan:

gay characters allowed to exist.

Duncan:

And so the, I have written a couple of them, but they're

Duncan:

dropping them every Saturday.

Duncan:

And so the only one of mine that's out there now is the 1950s biblical

Duncan:

epic about David and Jonathan.

Duncan:

And you can check that on, on YouTube, check out the Pansy Vision thing.

Duncan:

They're all very short and fun and they have a host and it's great.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Bee:

Oh, that's really fun.

Nathan:

It, it is on, I have not had a chance, I'll admit, I have not had

Nathan:

a chance to watch them, but like.

Nathan:

He's been pushing them really hard and I just need to put aside, you know, an

Nathan:

evening where I just marathon through these because I can't wait to watch

Nathan:

these and they look like a lot of fun.

Nathan:

And there's so many actors and performers, I mean, like it's such a small community.

Nathan:

A lot of these are local actors from the Rhode Island, Massachusetts area.

Nathan:

And I know so many of them, so I can't wait to watch these.

Nathan:

So yeah.

Nathan:

And we share, we share a lot of the same, same talent, you know

Nathan:

all the community of actors.

Nathan:

So it's, it's great.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

Anyways.

Nathan:

So that's great.

Nathan:

You know, definitely have, I would love for you to plug where people

Nathan:

can find you and your work, Duncan, I mean, we'll put it at the end of the

Nathan:

show as well, but where, where can, where's the best place for people to.

Nathan:

Find what you're working on and what you're doing.

Duncan:

The best place is my website, which is duncanflaster.

Duncan:

com.

Duncan:

D U N C A N D F L A N T E R dot com.

Duncan:

Excellent.

Duncan:

I have everything there, and you can sign up for my whenever I feel like it email

Duncan:

blast that goes out usually monthly, sometimes more if I'm working on something

Duncan:

pending, but that's the best place to go.

Bee:

That's pretty good.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

Usually monthly.

Bee:

It's pretty good.

Bee:

Yeah.

Duncan:

And that usually gets hooked up to my Facebook page for Duncan Flester,

Duncan:

the playwright and my Twitter or whatever.

Nathan:

Awesome.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

Well, we'll be sure to put your website handles, all that

Nathan:

in the show notes as well.

Nathan:

So Duncan, before we continue I want to ask you something that I ask all of our

Nathan:

guests on the podcast, and this kind of helps us get to know you a little

Nathan:

bit more about your filmmaking taste.

Nathan:

This is the most important part of the show.

Nathan:

Are you ready?

Nathan:

This is key.

Nathan:

This is key.

Nathan:

What is the first movie you remember seeing in the theater?

Duncan:

Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Nathan:

Mm hmm.

Duncan:

I remember being there with my family and covering my

Duncan:

eyes from the But don't speak

Nathan:

too much more about it, because somebody here has never seen

Nathan:

it, and it's actually going to be a retrospective next month, and it's not me.

Bee:

I was going to say, and that someone is, Nathan.

Duncan:

Well, there is a moment that I think is kind of

Duncan:

mimetic, That has snakes in it.

Duncan:

And from that point on, I was covering my eyes because I was

Duncan:

kind of too young to watch it.

Duncan:

But it was really thrilling.

Duncan:

But

Nathan:

it's great.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

All right, Duncan, what is the last movie you watched outside of this?

Nathan:

In case this is the last one you saw?

Duncan:

It was Anyone But You.

Duncan:

The recent romantic comedy that's loosely inspired by Much Ado About Nothing.

Duncan:

Mm hmm.

Duncan:

It's cute.

Duncan:

It's fine.

Bee:

Yeah.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

I like how they kind of subvert a lot of romantic comedy tropes.

Duncan:

Like even the ones from Much Ado About Nothing, which is like

Duncan:

stealing the Beatrice Benedict

Bee:

thing.

Bee:

They

Duncan:

like they just joke about how stupid some of the plot

Duncan:

contrivances are within that.

Duncan:

And it's cute.

Duncan:

It's nice.

Bee:

I'm fine with Glenn Powell vehicles right now, too.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

He's on the, I just yeah, he's doing good.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

Alright.

Nathan:

Alright.

Nathan:

This is a big one here.

Bee:

Mm-Hmm.

Bee:

. Nathan: What is your favorite movie?

Bee:

Queen's Logic right now.

Bee:

What is

Duncan:

it?

Duncan:

Queen's Logic.

Duncan:

Logic.

Duncan:

Nobody has heard of it.

Duncan:

It's got Kevin Bacon and Linda Fiorentino and, uh, John Malkovich and Chloe Webb

Duncan:

and Joe Mantegna, and there you are a whole bunch of fantastic people.

Duncan:

Ken Olin.

Duncan:

Um, it's just, it's great.

Duncan:

It's been my favorite since I came out in the early nineties.

Nathan:

So this is like a, a movie cover I've seen many, many times.

Nathan:

I just didn't ever notice it before, but yes.

Nathan:

Okay.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

And I think it's very underrated.

Duncan:

And It's usually, I think you can find it on Tubi if you're looking for it.

Bee:

Oh, I love Tubi.

Duncan:

Tubi's great.

Nathan:

Oh wow, okay.

Nathan:

I, this is something that's really off my radar, so this is good to know.

Nathan:

All right.

Bee:

And to watch list.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

So, and this is, this is a big one.

Nathan:

What's a movie that you credit for turning you into a cinephile?

Nathan:

The creepiest word in existence.

Duncan:

Probably Labyrinth.

Duncan:

Oh, yes!

Duncan:

Like, I saw a commercial for that at my grandma's house.

Duncan:

I remember to Stigliet coming on TV, and I was like, I know what George Lucas is.

Duncan:

I know what the Muppets are.

Duncan:

I'm not sure about a David Bowie, but sounds cool.

Duncan:

And, like, the original commercial just, like, blew my mind.

Duncan:

I was like, I need to go to that.

Duncan:

Take me to that right now.

Duncan:

And I saw it, and it's my dad.

Nathan:

Okay.

Bee:

I always credit Labyrinth with My Bisexual Awakening as a young

Bee:

child just seeing David Bowie and Jennifer Connelly as a growing girl.

Bee:

Yeah, it's a confusing movie.

Nathan:

I'm gonna test out a fifth question here.

Nathan:

And only because I might replace it at some point.

Nathan:

What's a movie that scares you?

Bee:

And why is it Labyrinth?

Bee:

No.

Duncan:

I don't know if I really get scared by movies.

Nathan:

I don't

Duncan:

watch a lot of horror films.

Duncan:

It

Nathan:

doesn't have to be horror, but what's it, but

Duncan:

I mean, the scariest moment for me is in Steel Magnolias when

Duncan:

Julia Roberts is like passed out and like her daughter is screaming.

Duncan:

Left alone in the house.

Duncan:

That always freaks me out for somebody who's like chill

Duncan:

Okay,

Nathan:

all right So before we proceed with this, I I have an important question

Nathan:

for both of you and I spring this on On whoever is opposite me on my screen here.

Nathan:

It could be my co host could be the guests here so These

Nathan:

are always terrible, all right?

Nathan:

I don't know if you've listened to our show.

Nathan:

They, they go off the rails in a horrible way all the time.

Nathan:

But my question for both of you today, and so a production of a play about the story.

Nathan:

Of your life is being produced

Nathan:

and

Nathan:

simple questions here, two of them, basically, who do

Nathan:

you want portraying you in the lead role in the stage adaptation?

Nathan:

And more importantly, you can only choose between the following three types of

Nathan:

audiences to attend this production.

Nathan:

One, is the members of the Flat Earth Society.

Nathan:

Two, disgraced former members of Doctors Without Borders.

Nathan:

Or three, members of the Droogs, the fictional gang from Clockwork

Nathan:

Orange, who have now been imprisoned.

Nathan:

But if you choose this group, you must incorporate the number Cellblock Tango

Nathan:

from Chicago into your production.

Nathan:

Who's going first?

Nathan:

That's honestly

Bee:

a banger number.

Bee:

Duncan, do you, do you have any immediate thoughts here, Duncan?

Duncan:

I always say Sean Astin would probably be best to portray me.

Duncan:

Okay.

Duncan:

We're kind of simpatico that way.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

And I think the Droogs, Droogs.

Duncan:

And I love Cellblock Tango.

Duncan:

I'm all, I'm all

Bee:

Sure.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

It's just good to get a sense of who you are before we dive into this.

Bee:

All right.

Bee:

All right.

Bee:

For sure, my audience is disgraced members of Doctors Without Borders, like 100%.

Bee:

That's not even a question.

Bee:

They, are so smart still.

Bee:

Okay, they're doctors, so let's calm down.

Bee:

I always struggle with, yeah, they're borderless, they're

Bee:

doctors, what do you want?

Bee:

I always struggle with who I think should play me.

Bee:

That's always really hard, so I'm just, going to lean into

Bee:

Nicolas Cage as the option here.

Nathan:

Well, he's, nothing he can't do.

Nathan:

No, it's great.

Nathan:

He's,

Bee:

the dude's got range and I feel like the disgraced doctors would be on

Bee:

board for any like meta kind of irony.

Bee:

I'm picturing, you know, late stage Nick Cage.

Duncan:

Okay.

Duncan:

Maybe one of them could take his face.

Duncan:

Oh.

Bee:

Ooh.

Bee:

I

Duncan:

see what you did there.

Bee:

All right.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

More of that.

Bee:

That's good.

Duncan:

Okay.

Duncan:

Well,

Nathan:

the film that we watched and if you couldn't tell,

Nathan:

because there was really no connective tissue at all.

Nathan:

And that question is, we watched a 1990s film, Lillies.

Nathan:

From, you know, all my notes are missing here, but from John

Nathan:

Grayson, director John Grayson.

Nathan:

And

Nathan:

this is what we watched this week.

Nathan:

And I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's opinion on this.

Nathan:

But before I do, I have a trailer and a plot synopsis.

Nathan:

You know, let me do the plot synopsis first.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

When a bishop comes to a prison to hear the confessions of an old friend, he is

Nathan:

forced to watch a play performed by the inmates about their youth together, love.

Nathan:

and betrayal.

Nathan:

This is right off the internet.

Nathan:

I didn't do any interpretation at all, but I mean, so far so good.

Nathan:

I want to hear interpretation of this plot.

Nathan:

I like to ask my 12 year old daughter, what she thinks of a movie's title,

Nathan:

Not knowing anything about the movie.

Nathan:

Problem is, she knows that we're in the middle of Pride Month, so

Nathan:

she's kind of trying to force it.

Nathan:

Oh, clocked in.

Bee:

Clocked

Nathan:

in.

Nathan:

I wish she didn't know this because it's, it's, it's being forced.

Nathan:

But here we go.

Nathan:

Anyways, this is what my daughter Chloe thinks the movie Lilies is about.

Nathan:

Nathan's Daughter: I think that the movie Lilies, it's about these three lilies

Nathan:

that are like, Triplets, and one of them figuring out everything in her life, and

Nathan:

the other two are trying to help her, and, and then, towards the end, they're

Nathan:

like all different sexualities, and they go through like, different, like,

Nathan:

romantic relationships, and they each try to help each other get through it

Nathan:

all, and in the end, They all are happy.

Nathan:

Spot on.

Bee:

I mean, it is about three lilies who are in different relationships.

Bee:

It's just a real optimistic take.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

So optimistic.

Nathan:

And like I said, I have a It's part of the trailer for this.

Nathan:

I'll drop this.

Nathan:

I am very intrigued.

Bee:

I haven't done any trailer watching for this.

Nathan:

I've actually stopped watching trailers almost all together.

Nathan:

At least for this podcast.

Nathan:

Cause I like to go with completely blind for a lot of these movies these days.

Nathan:

But the

Bee:

nineties were a golden era.

Nathan:

Oh yeah.

Nathan:

You

Bee:

know, see what happened.

Trailer:

It was very brave of you to come here today.

Trailer:

I'm about to get the sin of revenge.

Trailer:

Gloria in excelsis, Gloria in excelsis Deo, Et in terra pax honoris.

Trailer:

Those are memories long forgotten.

Trailer:

Gloria in excelsis Deo, Gloria in excelsis Deo.

Trailer:

There's gonna be sacrilege,

Trailer:

remorse, What's the point of praying?

Trailer:

What's the point of suffering if you don't even listen to it?

Trailer:

There's going to be lots of forbidden memories.

Trailer:

For

Trailer:

the person I loved most in this world.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

That was a the trailer for Lily's.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

So let's get to our discussion of lilies and because we don't have sand

Nathan:

this week, I don't really think we have much to say, but we don't have the,

Nathan:

our, our connoisseur of movie facts.

Nathan:

I don't know if.

Nathan:

Be you, I mean, a couple of things I can bring up.

Nathan:

I did look on the wiki page and, and box office mojo.

Nathan:

I did see that the budget for this was 2.

Nathan:

2 million Canadian box office looked like it was really almost nothing like 300, 000

Nathan:

at most, it came out at debuted at TIF on September 7th, 1996, and I guess it had a

Nathan:

An American debut on October 10th, 1997.

Nathan:

At that time it was number 22 at the box office breaking in 28, 000 approximately.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

I should say there's a new 4k restoration of this that just came out and is on the

Duncan:

Criterion channel and they have a Blu ray DVD coming out next month in July.

Duncan:

Which is

Nathan:

Okay, cool.

Nathan:

I was wondering what made

Bee:

this your, your pick.

Nathan:

Also debuting on this date on the U.

Nathan:

S.

Nathan:

box office was Seven Years in Tibet and Rocketman, not the Etlin John

Nathan:

biopic, but some other film that honestly I have no recollection of.

Duncan:

Was Harlan Williams the comedy where he's like an astronaut?

Duncan:

Maybe.

Nathan:

I don't know.

Nathan:

I just, maybe, I don't know.

Nathan:

But number one at the box office at this time At the time of this release

Nathan:

was Kissed the Girls, the first film to be adapted from the Alex Cross

Nathan:

book series with Morgan Freeman.

Nathan:

I was checking on that.

Nathan:

So yeah, a little bit of trivia.

Nathan:

I think I did find that John Grayson was part of a group of filmmakers

Nathan:

who emerged in the 80s known as the Toronto New Wave, which I didn't know.

Nathan:

Grayson was, is also a professor at, at York University Film School.

Nathan:

By the way, this, this Toronto New Wave, going back to the box office,

Nathan:

this debuted one slot behind a movie called The Suite Hereafter,

Nathan:

which was directed by Adam, is it?

Nathan:

It go in, who was also part of the Toronto new wave as well.

Nathan:

So both these filmmakers from this group had a movie debut at the

Nathan:

same time, one slot apart from each other on the, on the box office.

Nathan:

It was adapted from from a play of a Canadian playwright.

Nathan:

Is it Michael or Michelle?

Nathan:

Michael Mark Bouchard.

Nathan:

Okay.

Nathan:

Title.

Nathan:

I can't, I don't speak French, Oh, oh, drama, a romantic, something like that.

Nathan:

And it was also adapted as an opera and premiered in British Columbia in 2017.

Nathan:

So that's all I got for movie facts.

Nathan:

Come back, Sam.

Duncan:

Michel Marc Bouchard is actually in the film.

Duncan:

It's a cameo.

Duncan:

He's the one, he's the photographer in any scene where you see

Duncan:

somebody taking a picture.

Duncan:

That's him.

Nathan:

Oh,

Nathan:

all right.

Nathan:

So.

Nathan:

Let's get to it.

Nathan:

You are a guest of honor, Duncan.

Nathan:

Please give us your thoughts, your opinions on Willys.

Duncan:

Well, I love this movie.

Duncan:

I think it's beautiful to look at and very desperately romantic and beautiful.

Duncan:

I found out about it because my friend Tessa Fox, who is another playwright,

Duncan:

and she was obsessed with Brent Carver, who plays the Countess in it.

Bee:

One of my favorite characters.

Duncan:

Yeah, incredible work.

Duncan:

He of course was in on Broadway in Kiss of the Spider Woman, and Gandalf

Duncan:

in the Lord of the Rings musical.

Duncan:

He's dead now, but, and the last time I watched this movie was after he died.

Duncan:

I found it on some of the secure channel and watched it then.

Duncan:

But yeah, it's a beautiful film.

Duncan:

I've seen the play as well.

Duncan:

Somebody was doing it in New York.

Duncan:

It was the first thing I saw coming back from the pandemic.

Duncan:

Like there were still seats between people and

Bee:

right.

Duncan:

Yeah, we, I saw it in Times Square, . And yeah, it's a very

Duncan:

peaceful adaptation of the play, although the movie gives it a, a much

Duncan:

more meta textual visual aspect to it.

Duncan:

So.

Duncan:

done as real life rather than, I should say the play is about prisoners

Duncan:

putting on a play and all of the prisoners are male and they play

Duncan:

all the roles, both male and female.

Duncan:

And in the film, they shoot.

Duncan:

It partly as like a real movie with still the male actors playing the female roles

Duncan:

and switching back and forth between them as prisoners and as the characters

Duncan:

they're portraying in flashback.

Nathan:

Okay.

Nathan:

If you were to give this a rating from 1 to 5, Duncan, what would you do?

Nathan:

I mean,

Duncan:

4.

Duncan:

5 at the least.

Duncan:

Possibly a 5.

Duncan:

I gave it a 5 on Letterboxd last night.

Bee:

Hey.

Nathan:

So it's a five.

Nathan:

You can give it a five.

Nathan:

Letterboxd's Law for us.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

All right.

Bee:

That's terrifying.

Duncan:

Letterboxd's Law.

Bee:

Letterboxd's Law.

Duncan:

B.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

So I, first of all, thank you Duncan, because I had never even

Bee:

heard of this movie Yeah, and then Nathan said we were doing it for

Bee:

the pod and I was like, absolutely.

Bee:

I am very happy to watch some obscure cinema, especially for this.

Bee:

I think it's important.

Bee:

I thought this was really beautiful.

Bee:

I started watching it and was just not in the headspace to focus on it.

Bee:

And my viewing experience for the first, like 40 minutes, the first time

Bee:

I tried to watch it was not great.

Bee:

And I was like, it's.

Bee:

I gotta give this another shot and I just ended up restarting it and was like I

Bee:

have to restart it when I can give this my undivided attention and it totally

Bee:

changed my experience of the film.

Bee:

It's a movie that demands attention.

Bee:

You have to focus on it, but it, I think, rewards you for that.

Bee:

The world, like you were saying, Duncan, it is just beautiful in this very,

Bee:

like, very specifically 90s kind of way.

Bee:

It, it's, it's a little bit ethereal.

Bee:

It has that really soft lighting that.

Bee:

works for the play within the play within the play that they're putting

Bee:

on for their Catholic school, right?

Bee:

And it's you know, watching it, I was like, there's a little bit of everything.

Bee:

It's a little bit Shakespeare.

Bee:

It's a little bit dead poet society.

Bee:

It's a little bit Greg Akari.

Bee:

It's a little bit, you know, it's pulling from all kinds

Bee:

of really interesting places.

Bee:

But the performances, you know, you mentioned Carver, that's

Bee:

just a stunning performance.

Bee:

He's incredible in this.

Bee:

Scene stealer, so great.

Bee:

I think there's, you know, it's a big conceit.

Bee:

I don't think it always works.

Bee:

That switch back between when it looks like a flashback and when it

Bee:

looks like, you know, back in the prison, that works most of the time.

Bee:

I think some of the time it takes you out of the storytelling a little bit.

Bee:

Some pacing stuff.

Bee:

It's pretty minor.

Bee:

The movie moves pretty well.

Bee:

But sometimes it's almost so languid I wish it stayed there.

Bee:

And slowed down a little and would have benefited the story

Bee:

and let it breathe a little more.

Bee:

Especially towards the end.

Bee:

But I thought the characters were so Just So great at playing like not

Bee:

professional actors and then being really good actors, you know So you

Bee:

for that sort of mix of metatextual?

Bee:

context and just the story that Revenge story was powerful And that

Bee:

other side of revenge the flip side of the coin that redemption arc of

Bee:

a man saying like, look, I've been waiting my whole life to talk about

Bee:

my true love and what really happened.

Bee:

I mean, wow, that it's just a gut punch right at the end.

Bee:

So I, I really enjoyed it.

Bee:

I'm glad I restarted it and try it again.

Bee:

Didn't second screen it for me.

Bee:

It's a four.

Bee:

Super solid.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

Okay.

Bee:

I,

Nathan:

I had, me and B were talking offline before you came on Duncan about

Nathan:

how I think we both had a very similar experience where we, we were having

Nathan:

a hard time at first watching this.

Nathan:

One of the, one of the things I, I'm, I am grateful for with this

Nathan:

podcast is that, you know, they have the opportunities to become exposed.

Nathan:

To new films, new filmmakers, different genres that I never

Nathan:

would have sought out otherwise.

Nathan:

And whether I love or hate a movie, I still find it fascinating to

Nathan:

explore as much as I can about a movie that we're talking about.

Nathan:

But damn all of the films we've watched for this podcast, which is probably

Nathan:

now over like 60 or so, this one takes the cake for being the most obscure.

Nathan:

And I was so frustrated because.

Nathan:

Outside of the wiki page, I could not find anything online about this film.

Nathan:

No interviews with the director or the cast, not even as much as a commentary

Nathan:

on the movie, other than a few reviews.

Nathan:

And I don't count like, you know, people, random people's opinions or letterbox

Nathan:

reviews as, as content for this.

Nathan:

But I was really frustrated because I really do put in time to research.

Nathan:

you know, interviews and behind the scenes stuff.

Nathan:

And I was like, I felt so naked going into this.

Nathan:

And I watched this movie six days ago at first.

Nathan:

And I, and I felt empty.

Nathan:

Like I was, I, I'll be honest, my original review of this was a really

Nathan:

low score because I could not.

Nathan:

I was not engaged in this, and I think it's because of the framing device, the

Nathan:

way the story was told, I was having such a hard time wrapping my head

Nathan:

around it, and what's going on here, we got a film, within a play, within a

Nathan:

film, also Based on play, by the way.

Nathan:

So it's, it's, it's too many like windows that we're looking through here.

Nathan:

Literally.

Nathan:

And some of the, the, actually the Bishop and, and I feel like we're constantly

Nathan:

like looking through this, these eyepieces here and I had a hard time,

Nathan:

but where are we as the audience member?

Nathan:

I had a hard time.

Nathan:

Where am I sitting and looking at this performance from?

Nathan:

Where is my perspective?

Nathan:

And I felt like my perspective kept changing.

Nathan:

They kept pulling out the rug from under me and I didn't know

Nathan:

what was going on half the time.

Nathan:

And I felt like I was just catching up to just, The storytelling framing device.

Nathan:

And I couldn't even find like myself finding my place in the story.

Nathan:

Now that was the beginning of my experience.

Nathan:

I watched this again last night and after time where I had time to digest

Nathan:

this, I had, I took a one 80 degree.

Nathan:

Look at this.

Nathan:

And I had a much more enjoyable time watching it.

Nathan:

Now realizing that what the, what the filmmaker is trying to do here.

Nathan:

So I, I had a much better time.

Nathan:

I haven't really said much about the movie because I think there is a

Nathan:

lot of really good things happening.

Nathan:

I thought this movie is held together by some outstanding

Nathan:

performances, especially the three young leads in this Sloane Valliere.

Nathan:

Bilodeau, I think is his name, but those three are really, really good.

Nathan:

And this, I did not love the, the two older actors as much.

Nathan:

I thought the, the, the older Simone, I wasn't, I don't know.

Nathan:

I forget who the actor's name was in that.

Nathan:

I, and, but we

Bee:

don't spend a lot of time with them.

Nathan:

We don't, but I could have watched the whole movie in this.

Nathan:

Reality of, of the film that we're watching, not in the prison.

Nathan:

I did not like coming back to the prison.

Nathan:

I

Nathan:

would have liked the whole movie to show me the

Nathan:

flashback or show me that world.

Nathan:

So, and every time we kept coming back, it was so seamless, which was

Nathan:

kind of a cool thing, but at the same time, I needed a better transition

Nathan:

to bring me back or something.

Nathan:

I don't know.

Nathan:

Also, and again, I, I'm kind of going off here a little bit.

Nathan:

There, the cinematography in this, I have a very mixed feelings about, it has that

Nathan:

very soft nineties feel to it, but it also is teetering the line on, I felt like I

Nathan:

was watching a TV movie or a soap opera.

Nathan:

There's

Bee:

so much

Nathan:

of, I don't know, it just had, there's so many

Nathan:

arbitrary camera moves in this.

Nathan:

It's like, I don't know.

Nathan:

Unmotivated things that I felt like were happening with this

Nathan:

or that just felt random to me.

Nathan:

Some of them are really beautiful.

Nathan:

I love just this flexible reality.

Nathan:

Like there's a time where the Bishop is in the, is, is in the

Nathan:

confessional and there's the moment where the balloon is floating.

Nathan:

All of a sudden they open up above the confessional and

Nathan:

there's the blue sky above them.

Nathan:

Moments like that are really cool.

Nathan:

And it's a, it's a great use it's a great creative moment.

Nathan:

And I, and if the movie probably did that more, I would, I like that.

Nathan:

But there was just times where it just.

Nathan:

There were so many clunky, bad TV moments.

Nathan:

I felt like I was witnessing anyways.

Nathan:

I talked about the, the performances we've already mentioned it before.

Nathan:

The, the, the young actors were great, but.

Nathan:

Brent Carver stole this movie as, as the countess, he brought a sensitivity

Nathan:

and vulnerability to his role.

Nathan:

Every moment he's on screen, I found myself perking up leaning in because there

Nathan:

was so much heart with that character.

Nathan:

And I want to talk more about all the performances here.

Nathan:

I've gone on way too long, but I liked this movie on second viewing.

Nathan:

I still don't love it.

Nathan:

Cause there's so much that I'm confused about.

Nathan:

Still.

Nathan:

I don't know why characters did some things.

Nathan:

And I'm not fully, it wasn't a hundred percent engaged with it.

Nathan:

I I'm, I'm still at a three with this.

Nathan:

So I liked it.

Nathan:

I, I don't love it.

Bee:

Tunk in your face.

Bee:

You're like,

Duncan:

what?

Duncan:

It can be confusing.

Duncan:

I think the first time I saw it, I didn't understand a lot of what was going on.

Duncan:

I think it's deliberately a leak in a lot of ways.

Nathan:

And I might love this even more on a third watch, and I'm

Nathan:

not against not seeing this again.

Nathan:

I'm telling you, I, I, this movie was a one and a half

Nathan:

the first time I watched this.

Nathan:

I went from a one and a half to a three.

Nathan:

So by that logic, this might be a six next time.

Nathan:

Who knows if it keeps doubling, but that's where I'm at.

Nathan:

It definitely is not a bad movie at all.

Nathan:

And there's a lot of good things in this film.

Nathan:

It's very unique, very unusual and Some, some, some solid things in it.

Nathan:

I'm sorry.

Nathan:

I I've gone on way too long, but there you go.

Nathan:

Where can we go?

Nathan:

Where, where should we go from here with this?

Nathan:

There's, there's, there's definitely a lot of, a lot of directions.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

So, you know, talk about the, the great thing about this movie and

Bee:

the sort of I don't want to say TV quality, but kind of TV quality stuff

Bee:

sort of bumping up against each other right away, which I also think is so

Bee:

wonderfully of the time that opening shot of the priest eating the orange.

Bee:

I immediately, I was like, Ooh, what are we, what's going to happen?

Bee:

You know, like, is this a, a sort of pseudo artistic shot or is this like a

Bee:

predicating something that's about both?

Bee:

And then you're immediately thrust into the play, which is the subject

Bee:

of the flashback within the movie.

Bee:

And this, like, it sort of tells you right, right away.

Bee:

I mean, I guess you, you see the prison first, but it sort of tells you right

Bee:

away, which is why I think if you don't catch this movie immediately in a

Bee:

focused mindset, and you're not second streaming right away, there's not a

Bee:

lot of opportunities for engagement subsequently, like a lot of modern

Bee:

movies, there's an action sequence, or there's something later on that

Bee:

you can get back into the movie that way, if you sort of lose your way.

Bee:

Okay.

Bee:

The access point is only in the beginning here and you get the two

Bee:

setup shots of Inside the prison the priest is called in they're in a

Bee:

confessional And it's you look different.

Bee:

Yeah, you don't look like and immediately they're like, you know each other and

Bee:

then bam They're on the stage and they're back as young boys again, which I just

Bee:

thought was Really great storytelling.

Duncan:

Yeah,

Bee:

once I tried again,

Duncan:

and I did realize this time that at the very very very beginning There's a

Duncan:

quick shot, from later You In the film of the two guys when they're in the bathtub,

Duncan:

their faces reflected in the water.

Duncan:

Very, very believably.

Duncan:

I've never noticed it before.

Duncan:

Oh!

Duncan:

I was just like, that's so cool!

Bee:

See, that makes me want the Blu ray you were talking about.

Bee:

Yeah!

Bee:

That's awesome.

Bee:

Yeah, the storytelling just happens right at the beginning of this movie.

Bee:

You know the entire conceit and then you just watch it.

Bee:

sort of watch how it happened to get you up to that point for an hour and a half.

Bee:

And then the last 10 minutes of the conclusion, but you know, everything that

Bee:

you're supposed to know with, I would say the only notable exception being the Brent

Bee:

Carver character, the Countess right away, really, you're introduced to the three

Bee:

young boys and you kind of immediately get that dynamic of two of them.

Bee:

You know, being in Young Love and being playful and there being some

Bee:

hesitancy maybe, and then this jealous third character that comes in.

Bee:

It does feel very Shakespearean to

Nathan:

me.

Nathan:

I want to say something about the opening because, you know, knowing absolutely

Nathan:

nothing about this movie headed into it, I mean I didn't even read a plot synopsis.

Nathan:

Yes, same.

Nathan:

I

Nathan:

just went in blind.

Nathan:

Sim.

Nathan:

And I'm watching the opening of this and I've, I've seen probably way too

Nathan:

many horror movies, but when they lock the priest in there, I'm like,

Nathan:

I'm thinking something terrible is going to happen to this priest.

Nathan:

Like they're going to off this guy.

Duncan:

I mean something terrible does happen, they don't

Nathan:

care.

Nathan:

No, no, it does happen.

Nathan:

But I'm thinking like, he's like, the door's locked.

Nathan:

The door is stuck.

Nathan:

The door is not stuck.

Nathan:

Like, oh, he's dead.

Nathan:

He's dead.

Nathan:

This guy's dead.

Nathan:

And the way that they're like locking him in there, and there's like this big setup.

Nathan:

And in the way, in the way that the oldest amongst speaking, you're,

Nathan:

you're, there's going to be like sin and there's going to be like, this guy is so

Bee:

screwed.

Bee:

But then you're introduced to just this merry band of queer

Bee:

prisoners who are putting on a play.

Bee:

And it does really strike that balance of black comedy so well and again,

Bee:

I think you have to be keyed into it to, to see it and to find it.

Bee:

But once you get in the groove with this movie, you're

Bee:

sitting down, you're into it.

Bee:

It's pretty funny.

Bee:

It has some really funny moments and I think the cast of this play is part

Bee:

of it and they get to show up again as themselves a few times later in the

Bee:

film and just really defend their own and defend this love story in a way

Bee:

that is brassy and ballsy and funny.

Bee:

It's.

Bee:

Huge fan.

Bee:

Huge fan.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

Especially the actor who plays Lyanne, who's,

Bee:

I was just thinking of him.

Bee:

Yeah.

Duncan:

In, in, in the, the flashback scene.

Duncan:

She's such a sweet romantic.

Duncan:

And then in the in the scenes where like whatever, like chew,

Duncan:

like a complete 180 character.

Nathan:

So, well, something that I thought was very interesting and, and

Nathan:

clever, and maybe this is something that you were mentioning is that, and,

Nathan:

and, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna trip.

Nathan:

Over myself as I explain this, because I really don't know how to, because

Nathan:

I've never seen this done in a movie is that in all the scenes, I guess

Nathan:

we can call it a flashback scene.

Nathan:

Cause it's not, it's not even really a flashback.

Nathan:

It's just, it's something that I've never seen done.

Nathan:

Something else.

Nathan:

Yeah, it is something else.

Nathan:

But in all those scenes, you have like these Three.

Nathan:

It's more, it's like, it's like four or five actors that are really

Nathan:

featured in this, between Lydian and the Countess and the three young men.

Nathan:

Mm-Hmm.

Nathan:

. Nathan: But, and you, but you see all these other prisoners that

Nathan:

are acting in this film later on.

Nathan:

Mm-Hmm.

Nathan:

. And what's fascinating is they're putting on these roles taking place in

Nathan:

like 1912, but when we're in the prison setting, they're nothing more than just.

Nathan:

Almost like background for, for the Bishop and older Simone.

Nathan:

And I found that so interesting.

Nathan:

It says, cause we never.

Nathan:

Ever get to know who these people are as like, who is the actor

Nathan:

that is playing these people?

Nathan:

They, they, they don't have any identity other than the roles they

Nathan:

are putting on, which is, which is, they're just like, Yeah, just like day

Nathan:

player extras in this whole, in, in the background of this prison chapel thing.

Nathan:

And I found that really interesting.

Nathan:

I didn't really think about it much until on second watch that you're so

Nathan:

invested in these characters like the Valier and, and even the Countess,

Nathan:

but, but when we get into the prison, they're just there in the background.

Nathan:

Almost out of focus on the fringes of the scene, having no role at all in

Nathan:

what's playing out between The two older actors, the two older characters, and I

Nathan:

found this so interesting that They have nothing to say, they have nothing to

Nathan:

add to that, and that's not a bad thing.

Nathan:

It's just so Fascinating that that's what their role is, is is I don't know.

Nathan:

What do you guys think of that?

Nathan:

I don't know.

Duncan:

No, I think it's really interesting.

Duncan:

I think some of the actors, like, say a lot with their eyes

Duncan:

when they're in the scenes.

Duncan:

Like, Brent Carver is, like, in the background of a lot of stuff.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

Oh, he's, he's working the whole time.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

He's, slightly

Bee:

teary, 90 percent of the time.

Duncan:

Yeah, pretty much.

Duncan:

But yeah, I think I think they're all just, like, pawns in older Simone's

Duncan:

plan, and it doesn't really matter.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

Where they come from.

Duncan:

It's just like they're queer prisoners and they're there

Duncan:

to,

Duncan:

like, tell the story.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

Which is very theatrical convention.

Duncan:

So many plays are people putting on plays within plays.

Duncan:

Like Man of La Mancha is prisoners putting on

Bee:

the

Duncan:

story and being affected by it in the end.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

It's interesting.

Bee:

One thing I noticed was, and it kind of relates to this, maybe it did to me.

Bee:

Nathan, you said earlier in your movie facts that this was kind

Bee:

of Canadian new wave, right?

Bee:

There was some.

Nathan:

It was part of the, the director's part of a Toronto or Canadian it was a

Nathan:

group of known as the Toronto new wave, which was a group that started like in the

Nathan:

early, mid eighties through the nineties.

Bee:

It's when I was watching this, it really sang to me of like, okay.

Bee:

Some French New Wave, it reminded me a little bit of the way that, and, and

Bee:

some, like Wonka White, the way that memory is played with time and, and the

Bee:

constructs of that is, is like a very typical, you know, new wave, wherever

Bee:

you are in the world, kind of thing.

Bee:

And you could see this a lot in the costuming.

Bee:

Sometimes in the background of a flashback scene, you would see someone in the prison

Bee:

garb and you would notice their numbers.

Bee:

Or it would be kind of the flashback scene, but you would see

Bee:

the chain link fence behind them.

Bee:

So this fabrication of, you know, memory and.

Bee:

As reality, but also as you know, time slips away from us and just playing with

Bee:

time, not really knowing where in time we are and how that relates to our memory of

Bee:

something, you know, as more time passes, our memories might fade and slip a little

Bee:

bit and they mix with our current reality.

Bee:

And just commentary.

Bee:

That feels very much like Last Year at Marimba.

Bee:

It feels like Hiroshima Monomore.

Bee:

It feels like In the Mood for Love, you know, all these movies that play with

Bee:

big, dramatic, romantic conceits, but where there's an erosion of Time and

Bee:

memory, but it's trying to put some geometry around that to tell a story and

Bee:

those lines are just so blurred that I think that could be seen as a fault of

Bee:

the film, or it could be seen as, as a brilliant way to actually tell what

Bee:

it's like to try and remember something.

Nathan:

No, I think nothing is by accident in this movie here.

Nathan:

Cause there's, we talk about geometry, like there's even a moment.

Nathan:

Where the two older actors, older Simone and, and older Bilodeau or the Bishop,

Nathan:

they're actually in the play in the flashback sitting at a dinner table

Nathan:

and yelling Bilodeau serves you wine.

Bee:

And that's the thing is you get further into the more emotional parts

Bee:

of these memories, the more those lines sort of erode and you're, they're

Bee:

trying to put the structure over it.

Bee:

And it's just, I think that's where this movie really.

Bee:

Shines.

Bee:

I can also see where that's where this movie loses its audience

Bee:

if they're not fully engaged.

Bee:

But if you're on board, I was on board.

Bee:

I was like, that's fucking cool.

Bee:

This is where, and this is where

Nathan:

on the first watch, it was like, I was like completely like, what

Nathan:

the hell is, you gotta restart it.

Nathan:

Yeah, yeah.

Nathan:

But here's the problem, and this is why I'm, you know, I don't know.

Nathan:

I'll be honest.

Nathan:

This episode, people, I don't know how many people are going to listen to

Nathan:

our episode on Little East, all right?

Nathan:

Okay, I'm glad we're

Bee:

talking about it just so I can process this stuff because I think I'm

Bee:

talking it into being a vibe for me.

Bee:

But I want to tell

Nathan:

people, if people are listening to this, this movie, we

Nathan:

can't emphasize enough, it has to be watched more than once, this movie.

Bee:

Okay.

Bee:

I think so.

Bee:

Because I don't think

Nathan:

it's possible to, to fully understand and be engaged

Nathan:

in this movie with one watch.

Nathan:

I think we've already proven that.

Nathan:

Duncan, how many times

Bee:

have you seen this?

Duncan:

Maybe four?

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

Okay.

Bee:

Yeah.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Bee:

I think

Nathan:

that sounds about right.

Nathan:

I think

Duncan:

that, I, understanding things that I, I didn't get,

Duncan:

like, the first time I watched it.

Bee:

Yeah.

Duncan:

Like, there's a lot of stuff that's very clear, but then, like, some

Duncan:

stuff that you only find out later on.

Duncan:

And I love that moment where, where the actor playing young Bilodeau

Duncan:

serves wine to the actual Bilodeau.

Duncan:

Yes.

Duncan:

Yes.

Duncan:

He just, they have this little look between, that goes between

Duncan:

them that's such a weird little.

Duncan:

I got your number

Bee:

baby.

Duncan:

So cool.

Bee:

I would love if we, oh sorry Nathan do you have anything?

Nathan:

I was going to ask Duncan a question since

Nathan:

you've seen this more than us.

Nathan:

Maybe Bea, you might be able to answer this as well.

Nathan:

There's a plot hole for me personally which I just need

Nathan:

someone to explain to me.

Nathan:

Something.

Nathan:

Why does the Countess sacrifice her son?

Nathan:

Herself.

Nathan:

Mm hmm.

Duncan:

They don't really explain it, it's just she's tired of

Duncan:

living and I think she wants to let her son go be free with Simone.

Duncan:

Mm.

Duncan:

Like she wants to like cut herself out of it.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

And let their romantic thing, because she takes the two of them with

Duncan:

her to like help them escape together and like if she was left behind then Valier

Duncan:

would be, you know, Stuck there still.

Nathan:

I mean, I was listening to that conversation very closely and everything

Nathan:

that happened before, right before that is when she discovers, I think her

Nathan:

husband is fooling around too, right?

Nathan:

Not happened.

Duncan:

Her husband has left her and vi Penn they used to be.

Duncan:

And so she's gone crazy.

Duncan:

And the, uh, who is from Paris where they were from, but now they're in Quebec.

Duncan:

Initially lies to the Countess and tells her, Oh yeah, I saw your husband

Duncan:

in Paris, and oh, he was talking about you and he's coming for you soon.

Duncan:

And feeds into the Countess's delusions.

Duncan:

But then after she's hurt so much.

Duncan:

Hurt people,

Bee:

hurt people.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

When Simone goes off of Valier and makes the Lydianne cry Lydianne strikes out at

Duncan:

the, the Countess and says, Look I saw your husband with his new wife and their

Duncan:

beautiful young daughter and fuck you.

Bee:

Yeah.

Duncan:

And it's yeah, the, the Lydianne has, I was really struck

Duncan:

by Lydianne's lines about how people laugh at the, the betrayed woman.

Duncan:

On stage while she's coming to just crying and I find myself in this and now i'm

Duncan:

gonna make you that too and like, destroys the Countess's illusions about her

Duncan:

husband and I think that's partly why the countess is ready to give it all up Then

Duncan:

her dreams are just shattered By Lydia.

Duncan:

Okay.

Bee:

Okay.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

I also think there's maybe something about I mean, there's a lot of

Bee:

religious imagery in this movie, right?

Bee:

Obviously.

Bee:

And what is that?

Bee:

I'm trying to, excuse me, the, the play that her, that The two, Simone

Bee:

and Valier and everyone are in that's sort of the catalyst for this, the,

Bee:

it's about the martyrdom of St.

Bee:

Sebastian.

Bee:

Right.

Bee:

And I do think, and we know the Countess is like obsessed with this play.

Bee:

Right?

Bee:

Because she sees her son sort of blossom in it and it's love and, you know, we can

Bee:

project whatever we want to project onto her for what we think her desires are.

Bee:

Why she's so enamored with this particular production, but she is.

Bee:

And I think there's a little martyrdom.

Bee:

Act.

Bee:

Oh, absolutely.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

You know, she, she gets her son, the, the romantic ending hell or high water.

Bee:

There's an enemy involved.

Bee:

And then, you know, just like on the stage, there's, there's a death.

Bee:

There's a murder.

Bee:

So I don't, I don't know how overt it is, but I think there's

Bee:

something, and she's a sick woman.

Bee:

Yeah, and

Duncan:

it should be said, it was like a a queer imagery throughout

Duncan:

most of art throughout the years.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

Cause he's like stripped naked and then stabbed by arrows.

Duncan:

So people who want to paint a naked guy and make it seem like something

Duncan:

you can make for the church.

Bee:

That's the

Duncan:

way to go.

Bee:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Bee:

I did, I did want to hit a little bit on some of the high points,

Bee:

which this kind of did, which for me.

Bee:

The first one was that moment between the countess and the lady when they

Bee:

first meet and she lies and says, Oh yeah, your husband talks about you.

Bee:

I saw him in Paris.

Bee:

He said, all these highfalutin clubs.

Bee:

To me, that is such a,

Bee:

a protective, like communal society moment where two people who are

Bee:

part of the same culture, like, they're just like, you know what?

Bee:

I know what this person needs right now.

Bee:

And it's maybe not what everybody would give them, but this is, it

Bee:

was just so warm and protective.

Bee:

And so the erosion of that at the end of the movie was

Bee:

just so shocking and stunning.

Bee:

But yeah.

Duncan:

She tells Verguet that she has lied.

Duncan:

To his mother, not knowing that it's her son, and it's just.

Duncan:

But

Bee:

she, she says it, I can't remember the line, but she says

Bee:

it in a way that's like knowing.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

In a way that's like, you know, she, when you, when you have a relative

Bee:

who's old and maybe has memory issues and you just sort of help them along.

Bee:

I think it was kind of a touching moment between the two of them.

Duncan:

Absolutely.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

Supportive.

Nathan:

I want to bring up one other thing before we, we take a break.

Nathan:

I, I feel like I got mentioned the, the, the sex scene or the, the, the tub scene.

Nathan:

Cause I felt that was, you know, I found this to be, you know, very tender.

Nathan:

I think it's important to remember that this is 1996, a

Nathan:

time when the erotic thriller.

Nathan:

Was at the peak, we had basic instinct and like sliver proposal,

Nathan:

showgirls, disclosure, color of night.

Nathan:

What else?

Nathan:

I don't know.

Nathan:

But anyways and when you compare lilies to these movies, obviously

Nathan:

these are mainstream movies with mainstream sex scenes, but you know,

Nathan:

homosexual sex scenes often lacked.

Nathan:

I feel like even at this time, like Affectionate in tenderness,

Nathan:

but in contrast, I felt this scene in Lily's was quite beautiful.

Nathan:

It wasn't rushed and it was very artful and it's, it's, it's a

Nathan:

rarity in cinema, especially this time for, for something like this.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

So

Duncan:

like coming on the heels of the new queer cinema movement and

Duncan:

like the early nineties where like a lot of independent film became

Duncan:

accessible to people and specifically queer people that they were making.

Duncan:

Gay movies for gay people and not just letting the gay characters

Duncan:

be funny stereotypes in like 80s

Bee:

films.

Duncan:

And so yeah, I think this was really an important film for that,

Duncan:

that this kind of swoony romanticism could be allowed in a gay context.

Bee:

And you get a lot of and again, it's a play within a play, so there's

Bee:

a lot of, context here and nuance and projection that we as an audience are

Bee:

putting onto it, but you see a real diversity of reaction to the homosexuality

Bee:

in this film because, you know, I don't want our review and I'm kind of jumping

Bee:

back and forth in the timeline here, but I don't want to paint it as everyone

Bee:

was so supportive of this relationship.

Bee:

It's no one blinked at it.

Bee:

There's a reason.

Bee:

That's right.

Bee:

There's a reason that Simone was going with, with lady and that.

Bee:

There was some tension in, in the relationship with Valet at all,

Bee:

even at their tender young ages.

Bee:

It was really really hard for them to be together.

Bee:

It was really only one relative that was so supportive.

Bee:

And even Bilodeau, you know, who had these feelings himself suppressed them and went

Bee:

into the church and tried to follow a more traditional path and even tried to woo

Bee:

Simone, who he Loved him afar, who it was not reciprocated to, to come with him.

Duncan:

Yeah, he keeps telling someone that he needs him to, like,

Duncan:

come join the priesthood with him.

Bee:

Right.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

But he's clearly in love.

Bee:

Right.

Bee:

But it's, yeah, I mean, his father just, he has to see a medical professional,

Bee:

like, and what seems like that day, I mean, it's, it's brutal and that's when

Bee:

the decision is made that it's like these, this is now a forbidden love.

Bee:

It's gone from a play and something tender and something playful and something that

Bee:

adults on the fringe are comfortable with and supportive of, but now it's real.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

And when it, when it ever gets into, whenever teases into reality, into

Bee:

their daily lives, into a way they could actually affect the adults that are closer

Bee:

to them, it's, it's real danger and the stakes feel really high in this movie.

Bee:

And it's similar.

Bee:

We did Portrait of a Lady on Fire last week, Duncan, and it's similar

Bee:

to that where, you know, it's.

Bee:

You kind of can, you kind of can feel it when they get too close to it,

Bee:

when they get too close to society.

Bee:

Suddenly the stakes get really high, but otherwise it seems like

Bee:

this idyllic kind of romance.

Bee:

Certainly the photography in the film takes a painterly

Bee:

view of what's happening.

Nathan:

You know what?

Nathan:

Upgrading my rating to three and a half.

Bee:

Hell yeah!

Nathan:

There's a lot.

Nathan:

There's a lot.

Nathan:

One

Bee:

of us.

Nathan:

That's as far as I'm going, but it's alright.

Nathan:

I'll take it.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

Let's, let's take a break here.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

If you agree or disagree with our views, don't keep it to yourselves.

Nathan:

Let us know your thoughts.

Nathan:

Sharing your feedback is essential to building a community around

Nathan:

all of our love of movies.

Nathan:

You can do so by sending us an email at back to the frame rate at gmail.

Nathan:

com or finding us on Facebook, Instagram threads, Twitter.

Nathan:

I don't call it X.

Nathan:

Yep.

Nathan:

Or YouTube.

Nathan:

Never will.

Nathan:

We also love it.

Nathan:

If you could just take a moment and please leave a solid rating and

Nathan:

review on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to our show.

Nathan:

We thank you all in advance.

Nathan:

Okay.

Nathan:

So next we have our decisions on whether Lily's is going to be.

Nathan:

Saved or purged into the fiery abyss, never to be seen or heard

Nathan:

from again, big stakes here.

Nathan:

High stakes.

Nathan:

Dun, dun, dun.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

So, Duncan, what is your decision and why?

Duncan:

I'm keeping it because it's an important part of queer

Duncan:

history and absolutely beautiful.

Nathan:

B, you're, you're, you're next up.

Nathan:

I'm

Bee:

keeping all these movies, baby.

Bee:

They're good.

Nathan:

Wow, you're making me look like the, like obviously no, but honestly, I, I

Nathan:

am as much as I like a lot of this, I am, I'm still kind of on the fence on this.

Nathan:

I think this is a no, I'm okay.

Nathan:

No offense to anyone here for picking this movie, but it, no, it, I don't

Nathan:

need to, I don't need to save it.

Nathan:

I, I, I will risk the, the, the scorn.

Nathan:

For my friend Duncan here for, for not saying yes, there'll be, there'll be,

Nathan:

there'll be other movies, you know, we

Duncan:

need to see it again before really making a decision.

Bee:

Third time's the charm.

Nathan:

But you know what?

Nathan:

It doesn't matter because on our podcast, majority rules, and

Nathan:

because two out of three say that it is saved, it is going to be.

Nathan:

Put into our vault to be saved for the next generation after the

Nathan:

apocalypse when we emerge and we can show it to everybody again.

Nathan:

So here we go.

Nathan:

Walked away.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

So next up.

Nathan:

Just for Carver's

Bee:

performance, sorry.

Nathan:

Yeah, you know what, this movie actually made me want to

Nathan:

seek out more films that he is in.

Bee:

Yeah.

Nathan:

That, if any, that's my biggest take from this, I, I

Nathan:

want to see more that he's done.

Duncan:

He was mostly a stage actor, but there's a couple films out there.

Nathan:

I don't care, I need to seek out other things, whatever he's done.

Nathan:

He, he, he, he stole every scene he was in for me.

Nathan:

There was a recording of

Duncan:

the Stratford Canadian company doing Pirates of Penzance

Duncan:

where he plays the Pirate King.

Duncan:

Wanna look that shit up?

Duncan:

I

Bee:

do!

Duncan:

Jeff, are

Bee:

you

Duncan:

as special as Frederick?

Bee:

I live in Boston, that means I inject Gilbert and Sullivan

Bee:

into my veins like a fucking dick.

Bee:

Yeah, I don't wanna see that.

Nathan:

Alright guys, let's do our, let's do our movie pairings this week.

Bumper:

Excuse me.

Bumper:

Can you help me?

Bumper:

I'm at an absolute loss.

Bumper:

I've been looking for over an hour and I'm losing my mind.

Bumper:

What I'm in the mood for is sort of a A Catherine Hepburn

Bumper:

y, Cary Grant y kind of thing.

Bumper:

Nothing heavy.

Bumper:

I couldn't take heavy.

Bumper:

No, something zany.

Bumper:

I'm looking for something zany.

Bumper:

Or something modern would be fine, too, like a Goldie Hawn

Bumper:

y, Chevy Chase y kind of thing.

Bumper:

You know, funny.

Bumper:

I want to laugh.

Bumper:

I have to laugh tonight, really.

Bumper:

Oh, oh, oh.

Bumper:

Do you have anything with that comedian?

Bumper:

He's on that show.

Bumper:

It's on the radio.

Bumper:

You know the guy?

Bumper:

He says, Hey, forgive me . I get such a kick outta the way he says that.

Bumper:

He's so god damn adorable.

Bumper:

That would be perfect.

Bumper:

Didn't he make a movie?

Bumper:

Ordinary Pee Polls.

Duncan:

Kind of a big city spread cheeky kind of thing.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

I cut it off before that.

Nathan:

I don't know why, but I do.

Nathan:

You know, that's the movie we're supposed to get to.

Nathan:

Cause I I won our Oscar bet and we just haven't gotten to it yet.

Nathan:

We gotta do the Fisher King.

Nathan:

We gotta do a rewatch of that.

Nathan:

I actually bought the 4k, Criterion 4k, like two months ago, cause

Nathan:

we were going to watch it in a week and it's just sitting there.

Nathan:

It's still in its wrapper.

Nathan:

Like I got to get in my damn.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

Well, Duncan, do you have a pick for us this week?

Nathan:

Yes.

Duncan:

The previous movie by the same director, John Grayson.

Duncan:

from 1993, Zero Patients.

Duncan:

I

Bee:

was looking into that.

Duncan:

Yeah, it is sort of trying to refute the concept of patient zero

Duncan:

in starting AIDS and spreading AIDS.

Duncan:

And it's very Canadian as well because the alleged patient zero

Duncan:

was a Canadian flight attendant.

Duncan:

And it's him teaming up with Sir Richard Francis Burton, who has

Duncan:

gone through How do you say that?

Duncan:

The Fountain of Youth, and is like a hundred something years old, and

Duncan:

working in a museum, and making a thing about plagues throughout the years.

Duncan:

And so the two of them, he wants to get Patient Zero to be his his

Duncan:

AIDS exhibit in, in the museum.

Duncan:

Sounds cool as hell.

Duncan:

And it's also a musical.

Duncan:

Wow.

Duncan:

And it's singing buttholes.

Duncan:

It's, it's absolutely crazy and really, really amazing.

Duncan:

Okay.

Bee:

After this pod, I have a movie for you.

Bee:

We'll talk.

Bee:

You had me at singing butthole.

Nathan:

And it looks like it's it's, it's on VOD is where you can find it now.

Nathan:

It

Duncan:

shows up on the Criterion channel from time to time, but

Duncan:

I don't think it's regular.

Duncan:

I've seen a different way.

Bee:

Okay, cool.

Duncan:

Keep an eye out for it.

Nathan:

Alright, thank you.

Nathan:

Alright.

Nathan:

B, you're next

Bee:

man.

Bee:

I feel like I have name dropped a gajillion movies in this particular

Bee:

podcast, just 'cause this does feel so, although it is super unique and,

Bee:

and niche and special, it does feel like it comes from somewhere, you know?

Bee:

And, and I think you can.

Bee:

feel that in the whole movie.

Bee:

I struggled with a pairing because there's a lot, actually,

Bee:

that I think would be great.

Bee:

And there's some movies that we've recommended before.

Bee:

I mentioned Dead Poets Society for that gentle, tender, queer,

Bee:

soft lighting 90s kind of thing.

Bee:

I think that would work.

Bee:

I, I ended up with Lawrence Olivier's Henry V for that stage and cinema

Bee:

kind of contrasting experience.

Bee:

I also think Hamlet, Olivier's Hamlet kind of works for this.

Bee:

Again, it just does feel like that tragic young romance, but Olivier's adaptation

Bee:

specifically really seemed to work for it.

Bee:

Although Alexander Chapman's lady performance Lillianne did remind me of

Bee:

Mercutio in Bas's Romeo and Juliet, which was a very special performance as well.

Bee:

So, and a movie that is A favorite of mine.

Bee:

So, but yeah, I think there's a lot of directions that you could,

Bee:

you could take this movie and have a great double feature day with.

Bee:

All

Nathan:

right.

Nathan:

That's looks like it's on prime video and yeah.

Nathan:

And Criterion to be it's everywhere as it should be.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

So my turn, my movie pairing this week might be a little bit of a stretch

Nathan:

because as you just heard, I had some difficulties finding my Avenue with

Nathan:

lilies, but I do applaud, you know, anytime a director is telling me a

Nathan:

story through non conventional ways.

Nathan:

And as much as I found the thin veil that separated the play within the movie and

Nathan:

the inmates performing in the prison, a little dizzying, it was a striking

Nathan:

choice and I can appreciate the effort.

Nathan:

I love,

Bee:

I love.

Bee:

Didn't you tell me that was once the worst insult you could give a film?

Duncan:

Yep.

Bee:

I, I

Duncan:

love

Nathan:

I love movies about the art of performance, stories about characters

Nathan:

who put on a show for an audience, because as we all know, I, and I know

Nathan:

you know this Duncan, the backstage of these plays, the human dramas that

Nathan:

are going on behind the curtain can be just as riveting as what's on stage.

Bee:

Absolutely.

Nathan:

Hence the movie pairing for a perfect double feature.

Nathan:

That I'm picking is Opening Night from John Cassavetes.

Nathan:

Oh, word.

Nathan:

Okay.

Nathan:

I haven't seen this in a while, but I do believe that this is one of his best.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

It has an electric performance from Gina Rollins, who plays, Aging

Nathan:

actress, Ben Gazzara is the director.

Nathan:

The film is like this exploration of a lot of emotional baggage,

Nathan:

aging, identity, guilt.

Nathan:

There's

Nathan:

a horrific thing that happens in the beginning that

Nathan:

sort of sets everything in motion.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

Good movie.

Nathan:

Watch it everyone.

Nathan:

It's on Macs, Criterion, and VOD.

Bee:

Nathan, have you seen The Headless Woman, Lucretia Martel?

Bee:

She did La Cienega.

Bee:

It's sort of like a South American remake of opening night.

Bee:

It's good.

Bee:

Oh, I didn't know it.

Bee:

I may or may not have it on Blu ray.

Bee:

I can pass them along.

Nathan:

Those are our picks.

Nathan:

You know what?

Nathan:

If you listen to this, let us know.

Nathan:

If you like these pics, if you got other ones that you would suggest as

Nathan:

double feature, we would love to know.

Nathan:

So yeah.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

One last segment before we're out of here and new segment called weekly

Nathan:

highlight again, voluntary for everyone here, but it's just, Anyone here wants

Nathan:

to just mention something that a piece of media that they watch this week could

Nathan:

be movie, TV show, theater, anything, doesn't that matter that they took

Nathan:

in this week that they want to share?

Duncan:

There's a really cool cartoon on Disney plus called Kiss.

Duncan:

It's about a squirrel and her best friend who's a rabbit and

Duncan:

it's made by these South African.

Duncan:

People and it's really funny and really cute and clearly made for kids, but

Duncan:

with such surreal weird humor It's set in this place called table town where

Duncan:

it's talking animals, but also there are witches and centaurs and all kinds of

Duncan:

weird magical creatures and It's so funny.

Duncan:

I have laughed so hard at this show and it's very sweet and very

Duncan:

good But like the humor is just off the charts highly recommend it K

Bee:

I F F?

Bee:

K I F F.

Nathan:

Two F's.

Nathan:

I just saw that.

Nathan:

Okay.

Nathan:

TV show on Disney Plus.

Nathan:

Well, that is not what I expected, Duncan, but that's so cool.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

What age group would you say this is targeted for?

Nathan:

I know you're saying you're enjoying it, but what demographic, what age

Nathan:

group are you saying this is for?

Nathan:

Would my kids like this?

Nathan:

I got 12 and a seven year old.

Nathan:

Oh yeah.

Duncan:

I think it's like, yeah, like seven or eight.

Nathan:

Okay.

Duncan:

And 32.

Duncan:

Like, like, adults will enjoy it as well.

Duncan:

Like, there's some really great, really funny stuff.

Nathan:

Oh, awesome.

Nathan:

That's awesome.

Nathan:

Alright, I'll have to check that out.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

Let me ask you something.

Bee:

You guys up on Hundreds of Beavers?

Bee:

Yes.

Bee:

Yes.

Bee:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Bee:

I I, I caught up on Hundreds of Beavers this week.

Bee:

That was weird.

Bee:

I liked it.

Bee:

I liked it.

Bee:

I think that was a movie that could have been a TV show.

Bee:

But it was, it was real goofy and real weird.

Bee:

And I liked it.

Bee:

It kind of felt like a little, like Guy Madden meets Buster Keaton.

Bee:

Like I was into it.

Bee:

It was, It's awesome.

Bee:

Nathan, if you're not up on hundreds of beavers hop on, I

Bee:

think Netflix, check it out.

Duncan:

Yeah,

Bee:

that's probably right.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

And a TV show that could have been a movie baby reindeer, mini series, really

Bee:

good, really fucked up, which I was into, but I do think also would've made a good

Nathan:

I guess the main thing I'll mention this week, I, I've shared

Nathan:

this on the podcast that I've been slowly going through my own personal

Nathan:

journey with the Robert Altman show.

Nathan:

Yes.

Nathan:

Did you make it through the 80s?

Nathan:

I made it through the 80s, which is a rough period.

Nathan:

But the the nineties there's a resurgence and it started with the

Nathan:

player, which came out in 92 and I, and this was actually, actually, this is

Nathan:

the first Altman film I ever watched.

Nathan:

And it is, it is, I have to put this funny and the pantheon of films that I

Nathan:

credit for, for being probably a major influence on my career of getting into

Nathan:

filmmaking and in that, in that world.

Nathan:

This is stars Tim Robbins as a studio producer who gets caught

Nathan:

up in covering up a murder, you know, of a murder of a writer.

Nathan:

This movie is so many things that's steeped in, you know, Hollywood culture

Nathan:

and the history with more references than it's possible to keep track of there.

Nathan:

I think there are 65 cameos from known actors playing themselves in this film.

Nathan:

But the cast also is awesome, like Fred Ward and Whoopi Goldberg.

Nathan:

Brian James, Peter Gallagher, rep Replicant, you know and Peter Gallagher.

Nathan:

Is Cynthia Stevenson.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

Vincent Donofrio.

Nathan:

Richard E.

Nathan:

Grant also.

Nathan:

Oh no.

Nathan:

Richard Grant and Dean Richard E.

Nathan:

Grant and Dean Stockwell played this tandem who are pitching this movie idea

Nathan:

to Tim Robbins and they're so good.

Nathan:

You know, Mm-Hmm.

Nathan:

Just trying to get him to, to make this movie.

Nathan:

And it's just, you know, it's really just about the, the commentary in the

Nathan:

Hollywood system, the power dynamics and the struggle of art versus commerce,

Nathan:

celebrity culture basically in all, in the superficiality of it all too.

Nathan:

So highly entertaining.

Nathan:

I haven't seen it probably like 15, 18 years.

Nathan:

And it's probably, I think still Altman's most accessible film.

Nathan:

You know, I mean, I don't know which is best.

Nathan:

You can just put it on and it's so easy to follow because

Nathan:

it's, it's just, it's popcorn.

Nathan:

The movie's popcorn.

Nathan:

So yeah.

Nathan:

That's a lot of fun.

Nathan:

That's a

Bee:

cool, yeah.

Bee:

It's a big deal, Nathan.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Nathan:

So I'm, I'm about to go on to the next movie is, is Short Cuts, which I have

Bee:

never seen.

Bee:

I've never

Duncan:

seen.

Bee:

Have you seen, Duncan?

Duncan:

No, I'm not actually,

Bee:

which

Duncan:

is the one after that,

Nathan:

which is ready to wear, which I don't the American translation.

Nathan:

I, I saw that a long time ago.

Nathan:

I don't remember anything, but this is now the 26th out of 35 or 36

Nathan:

features I'm in the home stretch.

Bee:

Yeah.

Nathan:

My goal is to finish these before the end of the summer,

Nathan:

because I think I finished a whole filmography like once a year.

Nathan:

I mean you

Bee:

got Gosford Park coming up.

Bee:

I

Nathan:

love Gosford Park.

Nathan:

I like this last two a lot.

Nathan:

I like Prairie Home Companion and Gosford Park a lot.

Nathan:

So, those will be easy.

Nathan:

But there's a whole bunch in the late 90s I have not seen.

Nathan:

I have not seen the Gingerbread Man.

Nathan:

I have not seen Kansas City.

Nathan:

I have not, like I said, I haven't seen Short Cuts.

Nathan:

There's one other in there.

Nathan:

I haven't seen so it'll be, there'll be a fun, um, fourth Prada

Bee:

Porter's good though, too, though.

Bee:

You do have that Forest Whitaker, right?

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

He's in that.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Bee:

Yeah.

Duncan:

Yeah.

Duncan:

That's, that's, that's when there's a whole bunch of different cameos.

Nathan:

The last thing I'll just say, and I'm going to save this

Nathan:

for maybe a more featured review.

Nathan:

Cause you know, on our YouTube channel, I do release reviews on my own.

Nathan:

I saw inside Out too yesterday.

Nathan:

I'm seeing that this week.

Nathan:

I won't say much about it, but big thumbs up.

Nathan:

I'll say thumbs up on it.

Nathan:

Yeah.

Bee:

Yeah, I'm excited.

Nathan:

I, I, I did like it a lot and I, the, the wait was worth it.

Bee:

Nice.

Duncan:

Oh, I should say, I'm actually seeing Zero Patience on

Duncan:

the big screen, Alamo is showing it and I'm seeing it on Wednesday.

Duncan:

In New York?

Duncan:

In the Sony

Nathan:

Theater?

Nathan:

The Sony Japanese?

Nathan:

I will,

Bee:

if there's a movie I love, I will drive to New York to go and see it.

Bee:

So that is tempting.

Bee:

I drove to Metrograph for The Great Silence, the Spaghetti Western,

Bee:

Corbucci is one of my favorite films.

Bee:

And then The Angelica, which I don't love The Angelica.

Bee:

But The Angelica was doing Asteroid City, which I want to go see.

Nathan:

That was fun.

Nathan:

Four years ago, I was in New York City for the, The film week.

Nathan:

So it was like the independent, like film conference and I stayed an extra

Nathan:

day and I just spent the entire day in, in Brooklyn and I saw five movies

Nathan:

at the Alamo draft house there.

Bee:

Hell yeah.

Bee:

Hell yeah.

Nathan:

One of, one of which I think was Miles Davis the, the cool, what was it?

Nathan:

His, the biopic about Miles Davis from like five years ago.

Nathan:

Oh yeah.

Nathan:

The one with

Bee:

Denzel.

Nathan:

No, no, it wasn't a biopic.

Nathan:

Sorry, it was a documentary.

Nathan:

No.

Nathan:

Oh man, I'm blanking on it.

Nathan:

Hang on, I'm gonna know.

Nathan:

And as you pull that up, it's one of the best documentaries

Nathan:

I've ever seen in my life.

Nathan:

There's Miles Ahead, or?

Nathan:

Miles Davis great podcasting going on here.

Nathan:

It's called Birth of the Cool.

Nathan:

Birth of the Cool?

Nathan:

It is, Birth of the Cool.

Nathan:

It is amazing.

Nathan:

And, I saw Quadrophenia.

Nathan:

Oh, nice, which is really good.

Nathan:

Actually, I, I, it's not my favorite who album, but seeing

Nathan:

it actually had a great time.

Nathan:

It was a midnight screening of quadrophenia at the draft house, which

Nathan:

was, which was, which was a midnight

Bee:

screening of anything can really bring out the best.

Bee:

I saw, um, who is it?

Bee:

The star man.

Bee:

And that was really good at Coolidge Corner Theater.

Bee:

That was a fun one.

Nathan:

Starman is my second favorite Carpenter.

Bee:

Really?

Bee:

Okay, I really love In the Mouth of Madness.

Duncan:

That's the first carpet movie I ever saw.

Bee:

It's good.

Bee:

It's really fucking scary.

Bee:

Yeah.

Duncan:

I saw Clue and that was fucking amazing.

Bee:

Oh, that sounds fun.

Bee:

Yeah.

Bee:

I would rather go to that than a Rocky Horror Screening, I think.

Nathan:

Duncan, before we go, please, just one last time.

Nathan:

First of all, I want to thank you again for, for joining us this

Nathan:

evening for our discussion of lilies.

Nathan:

I hope you had a good time.

Nathan:

Will you join us again sometime if we call

Duncan:

upon you?

Duncan:

Passing future guests.

Duncan:

Do you want to do zero patients for next year's pride?

Duncan:

Let me know.

Duncan:

Not saying

Bee:

no.

Bee:

We could also, we've done apocalyptic themes before.

Bee:

We could do like, You know plague breakout movies.

Bee:

Oh, that'd be a fun march.

Bee:

Memory

Nathan:

Alright Duncan, one last time, please share where the audience where best

Nathan:

people to the best way of finding you.

Duncan:

Yep.

Duncan:

Besides your

Nathan:

home.

Duncan:

Best place is duncan plaster com N cn P-A-S-T-E com.

Duncan:

Or you can find me pretty much I'm on most of the socials.

Duncan:

I'm on blue if anybody still using.

Duncan:

Yeah, it was a Twitter alternative that some people started using.

Duncan:

With the one that Donald Trump uses?

Duncan:

Oh, no, I don't think so.

Nathan:

Okay, good.

Nathan:

Great.

Nathan:

And, and everyone out there, please check out pansy vision, which is

Nathan:

coming out, comes out once a week.

Nathan:

Is your episode out already?

Duncan:

Yeah, the first episode I wrote is out, it's the biblical epic

Duncan:

I think it came out two weeks ago.

Nathan:

Great.

Nathan:

So I encourage everyone to check that out.

Nathan:

I'm going to watch it as soon as I can.

Nathan:

And yeah, good stuff.

Nathan:

I look forward to seeing more of what you do.

Nathan:

Hopefully I'll get down to New York sometime.

Nathan:

I'll get to hang with you and see, see, see one of your productions.

Nathan:

Live in the flesh sometime.

Nathan:

We'll see.

Nathan:

All right.

Nathan:

Very good.

Nathan:

Okay.

Nathan:

Well, thank you for dialing into our transmission.

Nathan:

If that, my God, that is the wrong thing here.

Nathan:

That is our show this week.

Nathan:

Back to the framerate is part of the Western media podcast network.

Nathan:

We also wish to thank Brian Ellsworth for our show.

Nathan:

Opening on behalf of all of us.

Nathan:

We bid you farewell from the fallout shelter.

Nathan:

Your presence in our underground sanctuary is truly appreciated.

Nathan:

We are truly sorry.

Nathan:

You cannot join us, but we want to express our gratitude for your company.

Nathan:

If you're finding solace in our discussions, we kindly

Nathan:

ask that you please subscribe.

Nathan:

Leave a rating and review.

Nathan:

You can find more episodes of this podcast on back to the frame rate.

Nathan:

Dot com in our handle on our socials is back frame rate.

Nathan:

Your support is the beacon of light that brightens our confined space.

Nathan:

Head on over to Apple podcasts, spatter Spotify, Spotify, whatever music or

Nathan:

whichever portal connects you to our broadcast and share your thoughts

Nathan:

until we emerge from the fallout.

Nathan:

Stay with us, keep hope alive, and keep those reviews coming.

Nathan:

Back to the framerate, signing off.

Nathan:

I want you to know it's over.

Nathan:

Will.

Nathan:

No.

Nathan:

Bye.

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About the Podcast

Back to the Frame Rate
Preserving Our Civilization One MOVIE At A Time
Back to the Frame Rate is a movie discussion podcast where filmmakers, actors, and passionate wannabes come together to celebrate the art of cinema. From beloved popcorn flicks of the '80s, '90s and today, to timeless classics and arthouse gems we cover it all. But we’re not just here to talk movies — we’re here to save them!

In a world facing imminent asteroid-induced doom (think Armageddon without the happy ending), we’ve built a fallout shelter for the greatest films of all time. With only enough space for a carefully curated vault of 35mm and 70mm reels, the stakes couldn’t be higher. We comb through the likes of AFI’s 100, Sight & Sound’s Greats, and IMDB’s Top 250 to decide which films are worthy of saving — and which will be purged forever.

Join hosts Nathan Suher, Sam Coale, and Briana (Bee) Butterworth as they passionately debate cinema’s survival, ensuring the future of storytelling one reel at a time. Sadly, the space is tight, just enough for us and our cherished 35mm and 70mm film reels. To friends, family, and old acquaintances left in the cinematic dust, our apologies. But fret not, for we vow to emerge when Earth is safe for repopulation. We've preserved the very soul of civilization, ensuring a future where storytelling thrives. Back to the Frame Rate, saving the world one reel at a time!
Hosted by Nathan Suher, Sam Coale, and Briana (Bee) Butterworth.
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Nathan Suher

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Bee Butterworth

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