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Episode 91

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Published on:

11th Nov 2024

Klute (1971): The Call Girl Who Stole the Show - A Deep Dive into Jane Fonda's Iconic Role

This episode dives into the captivating world of 1971's "Klute," showcasing Jane Fonda's remarkable performance that left both hosts thoroughly impressed. As part of their Noirvember series, they explore the film's stunning cinematography and its themes of paranoia and identity, drawing parallels with the broader context of 1970s hard-boiled detective noir. The conversation transitions into a fun segment where they curate their ideal lineup for a film noir slumber party, featuring a mix of classic and modern titles that highlight the genre's evolution. Expect witty banter and insightful analysis as they debate the merits of films like "Gilda," "Blood Simple," and "Gone Girl," all while reminiscing about the allure of femme fatales and the moral complexities of noir storytelling. Join them for a night of cinematic exploration that promises to keep you on the edge of your seat.

Time Stamps

  • 02:11 Discussing 'Klute' (1971)
  • 44:30 Final Thoughts, Ratings, and Vault Decision
  • 49:05 Film Noir Slumber Party: Movie Picks and Snacks
  • 01:06:43 Weekly Highlights
  • 01:11:44 Wrap-up

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Mentioned in this episode:

100th Episode Spectacular Promo

Transcript
Narrator:

In the dying embers of human existence.

Narrator:

As the asteroid, a behemoth the sides of Texas hurdles relentlessly toward Earth, the world braces for an apocalyptic end.

Narrator:

Deep beneath the bunker, a refuge plunges into the bowels of the earth.

Narrator:

Here the chosen gather their purpose clear to preserve the very soul of our civilization.

Narrator:

The 35 and 70 millimeter prints that encapsulate the magic, the emotion and the dreams of generations past.

Narrator:

These masterpieces, each frame a testament to the human spirit, are carefully cataloged and cradled in the cavernous confines of the bunker.

Narrator:

Perhaps there was room for more, for friends and family yearning for salvation.

Narrator:

But sacrifices must be made.

Narrator:

The movie nerds stand united, the keepers of a flame promising a future where the art of storytelling endures, transcending the boundaries of time and space.

Narrator:

God help us all.

Nathan Schur:

Welcome to Back to the Frame Rate, part of the Westin Media Podcast Network.

Nathan Schur:

Join us as we watch and discuss films on VOD and streaming platforms, deliberating on whether each one is worthy of salvation or destined for destruction in the face of the impending asteroid apocalypse.

Brianna Butterworth:

Ah.

Nathan Schur:

You can find more episodes of this podcast on backtotheframerate.com where you can subscribe and share our show and find us on our socials at Back to the Frame Rate.

Nathan Schur:

I am Nathan Schur, and accompanying me is the extraordinary movie maven, Brianna Butterworth.

Nathan Schur:

Hello, be.

Brianna Butterworth:

Hello.

Brianna Butterworth:

How's it going, Nathan?

Nathan Schur:

I'm doing okay.

Nathan Schur:

I'm excited that we're back.

Nathan Schur:

It's a Monday night and we're talking movies.

Nathan Schur:

What could be better?

Brianna Butterworth:

Best way to start the week.

Nathan Schur:

Yes, it is great way.

Nathan Schur:

We've got, I think an awesome show tonight.

Nathan Schur:

We don't have Sam tonight.

Nathan Schur:

He is off, you know, floating around the universe somewhere.

Nathan Schur:

He.

Brianna Butterworth:

We miss you.

Nathan Schur:

We miss you, Sam, if you're listening.

Nathan Schur:

Yes.

Nathan Schur:

e are talking About Koot from:

Nathan Schur:

What does it be?

Brianna Butterworth:

Pakula.

Nathan Schur:

Right?

Nathan Schur:

Not Pacoola.

Brianna Butterworth:

Not Pacola.

Brianna Butterworth:

Not Pacula.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Count Paculus.

Nathan Schur:

We're gonna be talking about this film, giving our ratings and our verdict if this film is going to be saved in our bunker or not.

Nathan Schur:

After that, we have a fun segment which is going to be our.

Nathan Schur:

s, I think a year ago for our:

Brianna Butterworth:

Something about these noirs just.

Nathan Schur:

But I actually think it was for the Exorcist franchise.

Nathan Schur:

We did our:

Nathan Schur:

We're going to talk about that More later on after our review.

Nathan Schur:

And after that, we might mention a weekly highlight or two, but stick around for all that.

Nathan Schur:

r discussion about clute from:

Nathan Schur:

This is the first time you've seen this?

Nathan Schur:

Yes, yes.

Nathan Schur:

I want to.

Nathan Schur:

I want to say this is the first time I have seen this.

Nathan Schur:

But you remember how last week I mentioned When Night Moves.

Nathan Schur:

I wasn't going to say this on the show because I'm going to lose all my movie credibility here, but I could have sworn when I watched Night Moves last week I had never seen it and that never.

Nathan Schur:

And I had.

Nathan Schur:

I've seen it like only like seven years ago.

Nathan Schur:

So I'm logging my letterbox entry for Klute and lo and behold, it tells me that I have seen this before.

Nathan Schur:

Again, no recollection.

Nathan Schur:

I don't know what's going on.

Nathan Schur:

If it is something in the water, something about noir movies, it is noir movies.

Nathan Schur:

There's two noir movies in a row.

Nathan Schur:

1970s neo noir movies.

Nathan Schur:

I just leaving my brain.

Nathan Schur:

I don't get it.

Nathan Schur:

And these aren't like bad movies either.

Brianna Butterworth:

No, they're just too immersive.

Nathan Schur:

You know, that's what it is.

Nathan Schur:

We'll just chalk it up to that.

Nathan Schur:

So Alan J.

Nathan Schur:

Pakula.

Nathan Schur:

This is his second feature film.

Nathan Schur:

He did 16 movies in his career.

Nathan Schur:

This is part of what has been known to be the Paranoia trilogy.

Nathan Schur:

The first of them followed by the Parallax View and All the Presidents.

Nathan Schur:

Meant two movies I know, I have.

Brianna Butterworth:

Seen and they're both good.

Brianna Butterworth:

But you know, for our viewers, this trilogy, it wasn't intended that way.

Brianna Butterworth:

There are movies in between even, but it just sort of retrograded into that.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

And he had a pretty great career going into Sophie's Choice in the early 80s.

Nathan Schur:

Presumed innocent, Harry Harrison Ford film.

Nathan Schur:

Underrated.

Nathan Schur:

Really underrated.

Nathan Schur:

Shadowed between a lot of like the Indiana Jones franchise.

Nathan Schur:

And then he got into like the Jack Ryan movies.

Nathan Schur:

And that this movie I think was sandwiched right between those really good film.

Nathan Schur:

And they did a John Grisham movie, the Pelican Brief.

Nathan Schur:

So I was just looking at his IMDb and these are things that stood out, really.

Nathan Schur:

Peripheral career.

Nathan Schur:

So.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

And died tragically in a car accident in late 90s.

Nathan Schur:

Sad.

Brianna Butterworth:

Very sad.

Brianna Butterworth:

I do think his career was more hit or miss.

Brianna Butterworth:

I watched his 70s catalog.

Brianna Butterworth:

Great underrepresented movie.

Brianna Butterworth:

Comes a Horseman.

Brianna Butterworth:

Really great Jane Fonda vehicle where she.

Brianna Butterworth:

She returns to her father's roots and does a western.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's wonderful.

Nathan Schur:

I will have to get that yeah, that might be something to do for my own personal retrospective Sunday.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Okay.

Nathan Schur:

,:

Nathan Schur:

Box office, 12 point million, about 97 million today.

Nathan Schur:

Pretty profitable.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Glad there actually is some box office data on this.

Nathan Schur:

Also came out the same weekend as McCabe and Ms.

Nathan Schur:

Miller.

Nathan Schur:

And also the racing film Le Mans, which is the film starring Steve McQueen, which I haven't seen.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's good.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Jane Fonda won an Academy Award for best actress at the 44th Academy Awards the following year, also was nominated for best original screenplay, but lost to a film called the Hospital, written by Pat Hsk, known for network, and was directored.

Nathan Schur:

He was.

Nathan Schur:

That was written by Patty Chefsky and directed by Arthur Hiller, known for Love Story.

Nathan Schur:

The film star George C.

Nathan Schur:

Scott.

Nathan Schur:

So, yeah, I might check that out sometime.

Nathan Schur:

I never even heard of it.

Brianna Butterworth:

Nope.

Nathan Schur:

So, okay.

Brianna Butterworth:

I'm upset though.

Brianna Butterworth:

Clue should have won.

Nathan Schur:

So let's get to.

Nathan Schur:

I actually forgot to see what else was nominated that year I should have seen.

Nathan Schur:

But let me just mention quickly the plot synopsis.

Nathan Schur:

So here we go.

Nathan Schur:

Bree Daniel, a New York City call girl becomes.

Nathan Schur:

This is from the Internet, so I can always read what comes through on the Internet.

Nathan Schur:

A mesh to end an investigation into the disappearance of a business executive.

Nathan Schur:

Detective John Klute is hired to follow Brie and eventually begins a romance with her.

Nathan Schur:

But it appears that he hasn't been the only person on her trail.

Nathan Schur:

When it becomes clear that Brie is being targeted, it is up to her and Klute to figure out who is after her before it's too late.

Nathan Schur:

I have part of the trailer from Clute.

Nathan Schur:

Here it is.

Brianna Butterworth:

Gri Daniels.

Unknown:

One man is missing, two girls lie dead, and somebody is on the other end of the phone.

Unknown:

Don't be afraid.

Unknown:

Don't be afraid.

Unknown:

Don't be afraid.

Brianna Butterworth:

Who is it?

Nathan Schur:

Can I come in?

Brianna Butterworth:

Come in now.

Unknown:

Brie Daniels, girl on the brink.

Unknown:

Somewhere among her clientele is a freak who murders call girls.

Unknown:

Sit down.

Unknown:

And a wholly incredible cop who insists her life is worth saving.

Nathan Schur:

Well, there you go.

Nathan Schur:

See, these days when the phone rings, it's not a heavy breather.

Nathan Schur:

It's usually someone wanting to update your Google listing or sell you something.

Nathan Schur:

Let's talk about this film here.

Brianna Butterworth:

Dinner scene.

Nathan Schur:

This dinner scene.

Nathan Schur:

Because this.

Nathan Schur:

I dug my claws right into this.

Nathan Schur:

You got a group of about 10 people here and they're just chattering away.

Nathan Schur:

Conversations are crossing.

Nathan Schur:

First of all, Very Robert Altman esque.

Nathan Schur:

The beginning of this.

Nathan Schur:

And first thing that jumped out on me, there's the sun drenched dining room and all these windows.

Nathan Schur:

And I love how, you know, you have Donald Sutherland as Clute and there in.

Nathan Schur:

The camera lingers in him for a moment as he is meticulously taking a bite of a single string bean on his fork.

Nathan Schur:

It's so deliberate about it.

Nathan Schur:

And I think we learn a lot about who he is before he even speaks a word.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yes.

Nathan Schur:

And there are these glances back and forth between the.

Nathan Schur:

There's a husband and wife, which I guess are Mr.

Nathan Schur:

And Mrs.

Nathan Schur:

Grunaman.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

And it leads us to believe that these two are the happiest two people on the planet.

Nathan Schur:

These.

Nathan Schur:

They're so in love.

Nathan Schur:

And I love her eyes, Mrs.

Nathan Schur:

Grundmann's eyes in this shot.

Nathan Schur:

But then you get this smash cut to exactly where Grundmann was sitting.

Nathan Schur:

And it's now nighttime and the chair is empty.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's so jarring.

Nathan Schur:

We don't know how much time has passed.

Nathan Schur:

It could have been hours, it could be a day, it could be weeks.

Nathan Schur:

But Clue and Ms.

Nathan Schur:

Gordman are there and they're being questioned by the police.

Nathan Schur:

But this initial smash cut to that empty chair just says so much.

Nathan Schur:

And Grundmann, it's just.

Nathan Schur:

He's just ripped away from existence and we never see him again.

Nathan Schur:

And not even a picture of him.

Nathan Schur:

And I'm.

Nathan Schur:

And because I don't remember this movie at all, I am actually still waiting for this to be.

Nathan Schur:

This mystery to be solved.

Nathan Schur:

Like what happens to him.

Nathan Schur:

And that's really not what this movie is about in a lot of ways.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

I thought it was great.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think what you're talking about with Sutherland rang to me as well because I was like, oh, this is straight out of the 50s.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like this guy is.

Brianna Butterworth:

Is our classic noir hero.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like that's what's gonna happen here.

Brianna Butterworth:

It set up that expectation for me very quickly.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I, Yeah, I just knew I was gonna be in for.

Brianna Butterworth:

I was like, oh, I'm gonna have to watch.

Brianna Butterworth:

Watch this movie.

Brianna Butterworth:

Because it was jarring.

Brianna Butterworth:

It was really surprising.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

There.

Nathan Schur:

And I.

Nathan Schur:

There's a moment.

Nathan Schur:

There's a letter that is revealed that her husband wrote.

Nathan Schur:

And I could not forget the line of dialogue that the police say.

Nathan Schur:

Like, remember they.

Nathan Schur:

And they tell Mrs.

Nathan Schur:

Grumman this.

Nathan Schur:

Remember it was written by a very disturbed man.

Nathan Schur:

This is her husband they're talking about.

Nathan Schur:

They.

Nathan Schur:

They're casting all these assumptions about him without any real knowledge of what happened.

Nathan Schur:

There's little regard for her feelings in this moment.

Nathan Schur:

And the scene just underscores a reoccurring theme in 70s paranoia thrillers where institutions, law enforcement are depicted as impersonal and dismissive in their prioritizing, you know, procedure over empathetic engagement.

Nathan Schur:

So I just.

Nathan Schur:

It just to a T.

Nathan Schur:

It is falling right into line with these themes in these types of movies.

Brianna Butterworth:

That's a great point.

Brianna Butterworth:

And it also immediately underscores duplicity.

Brianna Butterworth:

Right.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like it says your husband had a double life.

Brianna Butterworth:

This is.

Brianna Butterworth:

This happens all the time.

Brianna Butterworth:

This is very common.

Brianna Butterworth:

And you know, the movie is doing that.

Brianna Butterworth:

They're showing you, you know, one hand and it's sort of a magic trick.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like, don't look at what's going on back here.

Brianna Butterworth:

Don't look at this double life.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's really foreshadowing a lot of what's about to happen.

Nathan Schur:

Mm, 100%.

Nathan Schur:

We meet Bree Daniels.

Nathan Schur:

This is actually also one of my favorite scenes because I don't think.

Nathan Schur:

I don't think much has changed in Fall in the following decades when it came to the auditioning process for models and actresses.

Nathan Schur:

Probably even worse in a lot of ways.

Nathan Schur:

So, you know, this movie set the stage.

Nathan Schur:

You know, women are going to be objectified by nameless, faceless corporate people.

Nathan Schur:

I look at the scene, all the women are sitting down and the ridiculous pictures of the models hanging above them symbolizing this unattainable goal for most of them.

Nathan Schur:

And it's almost like mocking them.

Nathan Schur:

But the people making these decisions, their heads are cropped out of frame and we are left with the.

Nathan Schur:

These.

Nathan Schur:

The faces of these poor women, you know, exposed to this analysis.

Nathan Schur:

And it's so dehumanizing, this.

Nathan Schur:

So I again, and we don't even rec.

Nathan Schur:

I didn't even recognize Jane Fonda in this because she has this haircut that.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's her anti Barbarella haircut.

Nathan Schur:

Oh, it is, it is.

Nathan Schur:

Did you see any of the interviews with Jane Fonda about this?

Nathan Schur:

The.

Nathan Schur:

The hairdo?

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, I think she said she went to her then husband's barber and just was like, you know, she was looking for something that was.

Brianna Butterworth:

It made her feel tougher or something.

Nathan Schur:

It might have been, but it looks like battle armor.

Nathan Schur:

Like it's a helmet.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does.

Brianna Butterworth:

And this scene too.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think right away, it's not just talking about, you know, the objectification of women.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think it's really the movie's making a statement on.

Brianna Butterworth:

On the lack of agency that we feel under a.

Brianna Butterworth:

Paranoia, under like a panopticon.

Brianna Butterworth:

Right.

Brianna Butterworth:

Just feeling like there's some other entity that's in control all of the time.

Brianna Butterworth:

And that really gets to the heart of Bree's character later in the film.

Nathan Schur:

So where after this, Bree visits the.

Nathan Schur:

Her first client.

Brianna Butterworth:

Hilarious scene.

Nathan Schur:

Which is.

Nathan Schur:

First of all, I have to admit, I had to go into Urban Dictionary to get confirmation of what half and half is.

Nathan Schur:

We're not going to talk about it here, but yeah, anyone that wants to find out some of this is a.

Brianna Butterworth:

Little dated, but this scene is so funny.

Brianna Butterworth:

First of all, we just.

Brianna Butterworth:

We have to talk about it.

Brianna Butterworth:

This movie is shot beautifully.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like, it's showing things that I think are a little progressive for the time, but it also just looks so gorgeous.

Brianna Butterworth:

And even this guy's like, terrible apartment with his terrible cow.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like, even that is just.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's beautiful to look at.

Brianna Butterworth:

I don't know.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

I love how she just flops herself on that couch.

Nathan Schur:

And, you know, we could talk for hours about the costuming and the wardrobe in this because it is.

Nathan Schur:

It is.

Nathan Schur:

There's a lot to discuss there.

Nathan Schur:

But, you know, she wear.

Nathan Schur:

She does.

Nathan Schur:

The clothes that she's wearing isn't all that revealing.

Brianna Butterworth:

No seventies street style.

Nathan Schur:

But when she comes to his apartment, this first John's apartment, I think it's really fascinating how she like falls into the couch, like, spreads out there.

Nathan Schur:

But, like, it's.

Nathan Schur:

Her clothing is designed to like, you know, tear away or like open up to like just the way it needs to.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

And it's.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah, it's.

Nathan Schur:

She's good.

Nathan Schur:

You know, she knows what she's doing.

Nathan Schur:

She's in full control of this.

Brianna Butterworth:

I like that.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, in this movie, her character is given so much dignity and the profession is treated so respectfully.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like, this is a job.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, Bri Daniels gets up and she goes to work and she might like to have another job.

Brianna Butterworth:

And she talks to her therapist, which we'll get into, about why she chooses to do this job.

Brianna Butterworth:

But she's good at it.

Brianna Butterworth:

Right.

Brianna Butterworth:

She knows how she can do it.

Brianna Butterworth:

She's great.

Brianna Butterworth:

And we get that wonderful scene of her looking at her watch.

Nathan Schur:

But she's with the John.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

Which is amazing.

Brianna Butterworth:

But really the heart of this is he's right out of the 50s, she's right out of the 70s.

Brianna Butterworth:

And she really is this modern woman.

Brianna Butterworth:

And it's really a trait I'm learning of Pukula is to just have these incredibly three dimensional women.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, he's.

Brianna Butterworth:

The movie's really not making any moral judgment on her character or her Profession.

Brianna Butterworth:

And it's putting that right up there.

Nathan Schur:

No, 100%.

Nathan Schur:

She.

Nathan Schur:

This might be one of the strongest portrayals of a female in a film I think I've ever seen.

Nathan Schur:

I mean, honestly.

Nathan Schur:

I mean, yes, it's interesting that it's in the form of a call girl, but it really is.

Nathan Schur:

It's pretty amazing that the level of depth she.

Nathan Schur:

In complexity, how independent she is.

Nathan Schur:

She has full control over her identity, full control over her sexuality.

Nathan Schur:

So it's.

Nathan Schur:

I've never seen.

Nathan Schur:

And in:

Brianna Butterworth:

And she's making choices that are based on very internal fears and her own paranoias and her own motivations and her own desires.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like, she's really given.

Brianna Butterworth:

Not just agency, like in a very.

Brianna Butterworth:

Because I.

Brianna Butterworth:

I feel like a lot of older classic noirs, women were given agency, but here she's really given depth.

Brianna Butterworth:

And that's something that we don't always get to see.

Brianna Butterworth:

So.

Nathan Schur:

Yep.

Nathan Schur:

So Clute finds Brie.

Nathan Schur:

There's this.

Nathan Schur:

I thought the amusing exchange where they're talking between this door and the door.

Nathan Schur:

This isn't that big a deal, but, like, I love how there.

Nathan Schur:

She's not letting him in.

Nathan Schur:

He wants to question her.

Nathan Schur:

And in this moment, you know how back in the day were like doors had that little chain on it.

Nathan Schur:

And did you think when she closed the door, she was gonna unchain it to let him in?

Brianna Butterworth:

Yes, of course.

Nathan Schur:

Yes.

Nathan Schur:

And that's such a fake out because I've talked.

Nathan Schur:

I talked to a few other people about this, that I've seen this movie.

Nathan Schur:

And like, yes, that is.

Nathan Schur:

Everyone is led to believe that she is going to close the door, let them in.

Nathan Schur:

So I'm not alone in this.

Nathan Schur:

No, no.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's wonderful.

Nathan Schur:

What do you think of.

Nathan Schur:

So there's a.

Nathan Schur:

This, the next after this.

Nathan Schur:

There's a lot of scenes between Brie and her therapist.

Nathan Schur:

I was reading that these were.

Nathan Schur:

A lot of.

Nathan Schur:

These are all improvised.

Nathan Schur:

There's about two and a half hours of footage that was shot between Jane and this actress.

Nathan Schur:

It felt very improvised.

Nathan Schur:

And that's the one thing.

Nathan Schur:

I mean, there's a tour.

Nathan Schur:

I think there's three scenes with her therapist in here.

Nathan Schur:

And there's a great monologue I meant to capture and I didn't.

Nathan Schur:

I probably.

Nathan Schur:

I'm going to drop it in.

Nathan Schur:

But there's a great monologue that she has about how being a call girl, you know, how it feels.

Nathan Schur:

That I feel encapsulates a lot about her character.

Nathan Schur:

How it gives her power, gives her control, makes her Feel not alone.

Nathan Schur:

These scenes go on for sometimes, like, two and a half, three minutes.

Nathan Schur:

I do feel they really slow down and drag this movie a little bit.

Brianna Butterworth:

So.

Brianna Butterworth:

Sorry.

Brianna Butterworth:

Say what you're gonna say.

Nathan Schur:

I was saying that's really it that I didn't really love these scenes that much because that felt they were like, we're just gonna let these cameras roll and improvise and riff.

Nathan Schur:

I could not stand the way the therapist was sitting and her neck was gonna break.

Nathan Schur:

Like, this was the most distracting thing for me.

Brianna Butterworth:

Oh, my gosh.

Nathan Schur:

People can't watch this, but, like, she's, like, sitting like this and, like, you know, like.

Nathan Schur:

So tell me, you know, did you notice how she was sitting?

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, I guess it didn't strike me.

Nathan Schur:

If you go back and watch it, it is the most.

Nathan Schur:

It is the weirdest thing.

Nathan Schur:

She's not looking at her.

Nathan Schur:

She's just, like, doing.

Nathan Schur:

And her head's turned 90 degrees, you know, crooked.

Nathan Schur:

Looking at her, it's like, what is wrong with this woman?

Brianna Butterworth:

So two things on the therapist.

Brianna Butterworth:

I don't know if you read.

Brianna Butterworth:

Originally, it was written for a man, and Jane Fonda was like, this is the least believable thing about Bri is that she would give all this up about herself to a man.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I think that's absolutely the right choice.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I think that's a lot of the reason that this movie, her character comes across as true as it does is because of that.

Brianna Butterworth:

The other thing about the therapist scenes and what you're getting at, the length of them didn't bother me, but I'm wondering if this felt.

Brianna Butterworth:

It didn't feel like two movies, but it did for me, feel like either the detective stuff was really going to work for some people, or the emotional backbone of it was really going to work for some people.

Brianna Butterworth:

I felt like the mystery was the weakest part of this film.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I'm wondering if that's sort of how you're feeling.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like they're just sort of these.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's not all quite the sum of its parts, if that makes sense.

Nathan Schur:

I think I might agree with that to a degree.

Nathan Schur:

I didn't find the mystery probably all that compelling.

Nathan Schur:

Where I found it to be an incredible character study of Brie.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

And I could have just spent two hours with Brie because, honestly, I didn't find John Clute to be that interesting at all.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I want to talk about that.

Brianna Butterworth:

So I.

Brianna Butterworth:

The character study thing for Bree, you can have this movie without the Grunemann mystery, where it's just call girl.

Brianna Butterworth:

Paranoia, someone stalking her.

Brianna Butterworth:

And that's the movie.

Brianna Butterworth:

And she develops a romance.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I think it's a lot stronger that way.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's almost distracting.

Brianna Butterworth:

I'm a very gullible movie watcher.

Brianna Butterworth:

I figure out nothing.

Brianna Butterworth:

I am surprised by almost every twist to this day.

Brianna Butterworth:

And if I have figured out your mystery halfway through the film, it's not very good.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

And so I did struggle with that.

Nathan Schur:

I wasn't like, I didn't figure out any mystery for.

Nathan Schur:

Actually for a while because I did not remember anything from this movie.

Nathan Schur:

I found it wasn't until after I saw the whole film.

Nathan Schur:

I'm not going to jump to the end quite yet, but it is foreshadowed early on who the baddie is in this, if you really think about it.

Nathan Schur:

And as I was watching those scenes, I was like.

Nathan Schur:

Like it was going right through me.

Nathan Schur:

I really wasn't making much sense of it.

Nathan Schur:

For a little while I thought there was a chance that Klute was behind this because he was such a blank canvas to me.

Nathan Schur:

And I was wondering, well, the only.

Nathan Schur:

The common denominator in all this is the one person that we don't know anything about that is being shoved in our face.

Nathan Schur:

Who happens to be every single.

Nathan Schur:

Is everywhere.

Nathan Schur:

You know, John Clued is teleports all over this movie like it is.

Nathan Schur:

It's a little creepy how he just happens to find a basement apartment in the same building she's in.

Nathan Schur:

He shows up everywhere and I almost kind of wonder, is he even real?

Nathan Schur:

Because he just can.

Nathan Schur:

He just somehow shows up the most convenient times.

Nathan Schur:

And I feel like sometimes he was inserted after the fact.

Nathan Schur:

Like we need to do some reshoots and just have like Donald Sutherland just look, you know, at somebody just so that there's a reaction of him.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

He's really not given a lot to do except be in the right place at the right time, you know, and talk about that with.

Brianna Butterworth:

When there's someone on the roof, they think there's someone on the roof and they're in Brie's apartment.

Brianna Butterworth:

Which really is the catalyst for them spending so much time together and trying to get to the heart of this mystery.

Brianna Butterworth:

Did you buy their romance?

Nathan Schur:

I didn't really question it that much, but I don't really think that.

Nathan Schur:

Like, if you had to ask me if this.

Nathan Schur:

If their romance is going to be authentic, if it's going to last.

Nathan Schur:

No, I like how it leaves the romance.

Brianna Butterworth:

Me too.

Nathan Schur:

And a lot that very.

Nathan Schur:

That final shot.

Nathan Schur:

But I.

Nathan Schur:

The problem I have is as I Just stated a minute or two ago is that I really am unsatisfied with the level of depth they give the Clute character to the point where.

Nathan Schur:

Why is this movie even called Clute?

Nathan Schur:

Why isn't it called Brie?

Brianna Butterworth:

Well, because Clute's a friggin great name for a movie.

Nathan Schur:

It is.

Nathan Schur:

I'd be fine.

Brianna Butterworth:

But it's Brie's movie.

Nathan Schur:

It is 100% breeze movie.

Nathan Schur:

Clue is the southern character I feel is playing such a supporting.

Nathan Schur:

He is and that's why I was like suspicious of him.

Nathan Schur:

Like I'm waiting for him to like to be.

Nathan Schur:

Because he has given me these crazy eyes throughout this whole movie.

Nathan Schur:

I'm ready for him to play, to take that leap into like the.

Nathan Schur:

Become the villain.

Nathan Schur:

So yeah, favorite shot.

Nathan Schur:

I want to talk about that for one moment before we get into one thing here.

Nathan Schur:

Brie is walking through that textile or sewing factory and I think she's going to the.

Nathan Schur:

Is it the character of.

Nathan Schur:

We didn't go to the cast yet, but I think there's a character by the name of Goldfarb.

Nathan Schur:

Is that who he is?

Brianna Butterworth:

It's her John.

Brianna Butterworth:

That's just a lonely old man, only old man.

Nathan Schur:

But that shot where she is walking through there, it's through this like darkened room.

Nathan Schur:

And it's not just that, but it's.

Nathan Schur:

There's a moment where she is.

Nathan Schur:

There's almost like a glass pane or a filter that's on there and her face is almost distorted as she's approaching and then she just stops to look at him.

Nathan Schur:

It is the one most gorgeous shots I've ever seen in the walk up also like as she's going through the whole.

Nathan Schur:

The textile mill there.

Nathan Schur:

It's incredible.

Brianna Butterworth:

Gordon Willis, man.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

He made every movie he did with Pekula he made better.

Brianna Butterworth:

I mean his.

Brianna Butterworth:

The Caravaggio of cinematographers.

Brianna Butterworth:

Seriously, I mean this guy can paint in the darks like nobody's business.

Brianna Butterworth:

I loved when they meet her former pimp and there's Clute and the former pimp on the couch and he's just shadowed in darkness.

Brianna Butterworth:

And you really have the light in the dark in this conversation.

Brianna Butterworth:

I mean the movie is telling stories.

Brianna Butterworth:

The visual storytelling in this film is off the charts.

Nathan Schur:

Are we talking about the Roy Scheider character?

Nathan Schur:

Roy Scheider, I love Roy Scheider, of course.

Brianna Butterworth:

Incredible.

Nathan Schur:

Everybody knows him from the Jaws franchise.

Nathan Schur:

I like Roy Schard a lot.

Nathan Schur:

I question a little bit if he was miscast in this because there's.

Nathan Schur:

I love him in a later scene But I.

Nathan Schur:

Here's the thing, here's the thing.

Nathan Schur:

And I don't want to hijack this, but the way that the first, first of all, the whole interaction, because we're introduced to him and I think in general I want to talk about Ray Scheider as a pimp, but he's so.

Nathan Schur:

Ray Scheider is not the physique, not the type of actor I would first think of as a pimp.

Brianna Butterworth:

That's what I liked.

Nathan Schur:

You know, it is definitely against type, but the first interaction, the way it shot, you know, I'm really digging Scheider.

Nathan Schur:

Like you said, he's fully in shadow.

Nathan Schur:

We don't see his face, he's in silhouette.

Nathan Schur:

And that's what I think we can see talking to him.

Nathan Schur:

I find the casting of Scheider, it's inspired, but I'm unsure if it works for me.

Nathan Schur:

Totally.

Nathan Schur:

I find him to be a little too clean.

Nathan Schur:

I think that's what it is.

Nathan Schur:

I think I'm just a little too clean to be a pimp.

Nathan Schur:

However, the thing is, pimps and madams in this film don't seem to be demonized or characterized as terrible people necessarily.

Nathan Schur:

And in many ways they are the complete opposite of the evil, faceless, nameless corporate entities who treat women as commodities that can be discarded or treated like children or even murdered.

Nathan Schur:

So no call girls were actually harmed, I don't think, by any pimps or madams in this film.

Nathan Schur:

They are portrayed as very clean cut, intelligent, organized, family oriented, working class people who just a job.

Nathan Schur:

And I don't think that's by chance either.

Nathan Schur:

So the fact that.

Brianna Butterworth:

Well, she didn't.

Brianna Butterworth:

She fell out with Scheider.

Brianna Butterworth:

She was saying that like, you know, all they do is take your money.

Brianna Butterworth:

All they do is say, go put this and take your money.

Nathan Schur:

But they're not good people.

Nathan Schur:

But they're not pointed as they're not.

Nathan Schur:

We're not demonizing them.

Brianna Butterworth:

They're not violent offenders.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah, compared to how like pimps are portrayed like in Taxi Driver, you know.

Brianna Butterworth:

Well, sure.

Nathan Schur:

But the pimps and mans in this film, you know, they're depicted as this being a legit industry.

Nathan Schur:

There's a lot of structure.

Nathan Schur:

Everyone seems to be very family oriented.

Nathan Schur:

They care about their family of cargos, you know, the call girls, no one is quite.

Nathan Schur:

I've never seen it shown like this before.

Nathan Schur:

But that said, when Brie.

Nathan Schur:

I'm jumping ahead here.

Nathan Schur:

When Brie returns.

Nathan Schur:

What is it to the Scheider character?

Nathan Schur:

I forget his name in the movie is Frank in the club and sits down, like, on his throne, you know, is my favorite, like, scene in this movie.

Nathan Schur:

And the look that Scheider gives Klute is priceless.

Nathan Schur:

It's the smallest of glances, but with those eyes, he's saying, like, fuck off, she's mine.

Nathan Schur:

You know, I love that.

Nathan Schur:

But I do have suspicions, and I said this before, that, you know, Roy Scheider probably wasn't looking at Donald Sutherland.

Nathan Schur:

And I feel like it was an afterthought to include Sutherland in this club scene, because how did he even get there?

Nathan Schur:

I don't even know if this is a fever dream, if this really happened.

Nathan Schur:

And Clue is just showing up out of nowhere.

Brianna Butterworth:

Don't lose the forest for the trees.

Nathan Schur:

I get it, I get it.

Nathan Schur:

But still, it is a great.

Nathan Schur:

I want the shot where she's just flopped on him to be a poster on my wall.

Nathan Schur:

I love that so much.

Brianna Butterworth:

But the cast of characters in this movie is amazing.

Brianna Butterworth:

Scheider's just one of them.

Brianna Butterworth:

We see a lot of incredible supporting cast here, and like you said, they're portrayed.

Brianna Butterworth:

I mean, this movie has a perspective, and the perspective is paranoia and anti conglomerate and a real.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like a real conscientious anxiety around the state of the Union, you know, and if you sort of zoom out, yes, this movie's a little progressive for the time.

Brianna Butterworth:

Although I do think it falls into some tropes.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's not flawless by today's standards.

Brianna Butterworth:

It is much better.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think the ending is something we're gonna.

Brianna Butterworth:

We're gonna talk about.

Brianna Butterworth:

But if you zoom out, this is firmly in, like, the late second wave of feminism, and it's not shocking that this movie is being made and that the act that Jane Fond is, you know, nascent.

Brianna Butterworth:

Her activism at this stage is thinking about this and bringing this to the character and bringing this to, you know, she.

Brianna Butterworth:

She worked with call girls and madams to prepare for the role.

Brianna Butterworth:

She says she knew some call girls in France.

Brianna Butterworth:

She called them up to see, you know, if she could get some information from them.

Brianna Butterworth:

She's really trying to make this world and this role three dimensional and feel so lived in and feel so human, and I think such a product of its time, not just in paranoia, but also in that progressivism.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah, she.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah, she's gone on the record stating, you know, the.

Nathan Schur:

How prepared.

Nathan Schur:

How she prepared for this role.

Nathan Schur:

And also when the set was built or this.

Nathan Schur:

The apartment was built, she lived in it for maybe a week or so.

Nathan Schur:

And.

Brianna Butterworth:

But how funny that what was a dingy New York apartment would now be like $4,000.

Nathan Schur:

Oh, I know.

Nathan Schur:

That would be high end apartment now, right?

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

You know, she also, right before filming began, wanted to back out of this movie as well, because she felt like she wasn't up.

Nathan Schur:

Up to this.

Nathan Schur:

Like, she was.

Nathan Schur:

She couldn't actually give.

Nathan Schur:

Perform.

Brianna Butterworth:

She said, get Faye Dunaway to do.

Nathan Schur:

Because Faye Dunaway had a very difficult, damaged upbringing and could dig into those emotions, I guess, is what she was trying to say.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, there's some things that, you know, like, yes, it avoids the hooker with a heart of gold trope, which, you know, like Ebert wrote about, I think, you know, that's been pretty lauded and rightfully so.

Brianna Butterworth:

But it does fall into the.

Brianna Butterworth:

Well, she probably had a troubled past and she just hasn't met the right man.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, it.

Brianna Butterworth:

It does sort of.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's not per.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's not perfect by today's standards, but it is a lot better.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I mentioned earlier when we were talking offline about Gloria Steinem's A Bunny's Tale, and, you know, just that came out in, I want to say, like, 63.

Brianna Butterworth:

It was the early 60s, so like 10 years before, but famously ste.

Brianna Butterworth:

Undercover piece where she went into the bunny ranch and wrote an expose from the inside on the treatment there.

Brianna Butterworth:

So this is in the cultural consciousness of women, of sex work being work right now.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, we have the.

Brianna Butterworth:

We have birth control being legalized.

Brianna Butterworth:

We have Civil Rights Act.

Brianna Butterworth:

I mean, all of this is happening.

Nathan Schur:

One other thing, because Arlene Page is one of the call girls that they're also looking for as part of this mystery.

Nathan Schur:

And this is.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, we haven't even talked about this.

Brianna Butterworth:

There's like, now some dead call girls.

Nathan Schur:

There's a.

Nathan Schur:

This is a great scene as well, where Clue and Brie go to her apartment.

Nathan Schur:

And I think this says a lot about the situation with people that have this addiction and whatnot, because Arlene and her boyfriend are there and they are begging them to leave because they say they're strung out waiting for the dealer.

Nathan Schur:

And I love this when the dealer shows up and then bolts and we see and Bree just waiting there.

Nathan Schur:

And finally Arlene and her boyfriend, you know, they give chase.

Nathan Schur:

And when they come back, the scene shifts to something like, almost tragic.

Nathan Schur:

And nothing is spoken by any of the characters, but their body language is really express expressing so much.

Nathan Schur:

Arlene comforts her boyfriend, which is just this haunting portrayal of, you know, addiction, independency.

Nathan Schur:

And then the Clue and Brie eventually leave.

Nathan Schur:

But it's very poignant moment.

Nathan Schur:

It is bleak.

Nathan Schur:

But this leads Right into that club scene.

Nathan Schur:

I never really understood could.

Nathan Schur:

Is this what triggered Brie to, like, bolt out of his car?

Nathan Schur:

Because I never.

Nathan Schur:

I don't understand where that club scene now because I jumped the gun before on that.

Nathan Schur:

Why she leaves Clute and goes back to Frank, her old pimp.

Nathan Schur:

What is going on here?

Nathan Schur:

Because the movie absolutely loses me.

Nathan Schur:

It's a wonderful scene where she's.

Nathan Schur:

It's all.

Nathan Schur:

I think it's a oner where she's dancing with some random guys, making out with him.

Nathan Schur:

I love the scene so much, but I don't understand where this is in position of this story at this point.

Brianna Butterworth:

Has she gone to her therapist yet and said, I just can't say that I like him.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, I just.

Brianna Butterworth:

She can't admit to her feelings and so she kind of bolts.

Brianna Butterworth:

I wonder if the display of codependency.

Nathan Schur:

It could be.

Nathan Schur:

But this is directly after they leave Arlene in the boyfriend's apartment immediately.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

I'm just wondering where that other therapist conversation.

Nathan Schur:

It is somewhere around here.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think it's really more to do with her own fear of, like, legitimate intimacy.

Brianna Butterworth:

That's not for work.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, she's like, now he's seeing her life, right?

Brianna Butterworth:

And she has that great.

Brianna Butterworth:

He's seen me ugly, he's seen me terrible.

Brianna Butterworth:

He's seen me this.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, now he's really seeing her.

Nathan Schur:

Oh, by the way, speaking of intimacy, I have to talk about the scene.

Nathan Schur:

It's a little bit before this, but Brie, you know, she has her armor, her walls that she puts up.

Nathan Schur:

But she gets scared when she hears, I think, something on a roof.

Nathan Schur:

I forget what it is.

Nathan Schur:

And she goes to Clue.

Nathan Schur:

This is before that.

Nathan Schur:

This scene here where Clue and Brie do make love.

Nathan Schur:

And what afterwards is incredible because this one of the biggest mic drop moments I feel when she leaves him.

Nathan Schur:

And I'm going to say this here, but, you know, for people that are sensitive about this, you know, cover your ears.

Nathan Schur:

But this is a pretty vulgar thing.

Nathan Schur:

She says.

Nathan Schur:

All right.

Nathan Schur:

She says, don't feel bad because you didn't make me come.

Nathan Schur:

I never come with a John.

Nathan Schur:

Don't feel bad about losing your virtue.

Nathan Schur:

I sort of knew you would.

Nathan Schur:

Everybody does.

Nathan Schur:

And walks out.

Brianna Butterworth:

Walks out.

Nathan Schur:

Ouch.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Calls him a John.

Nathan Schur:

Despite the fact, you know, that she came to him.

Nathan Schur:

And obviously Clue has feelings for her.

Nathan Schur:

He didn't lose his virtue, you know, because, you know, he's.

Nathan Schur:

He feels things for her.

Nathan Schur:

So I.

Nathan Schur:

This cuts so deep.

Nathan Schur:

I had to talk about that.

Brianna Butterworth:

It Does.

Brianna Butterworth:

It does.

Brianna Butterworth:

And it's.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, it's not a place because it's a great example of her hard edges and her.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, she'll put defenses up, she'll throw her elbows up.

Brianna Butterworth:

That's not all she does.

Brianna Butterworth:

She's also good at her job.

Brianna Butterworth:

She's also friendly.

Brianna Butterworth:

She's also funny, she's charming.

Brianna Butterworth:

But she does have this side to her, and we really get to become familiar with it over and over throughout the film.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I think that club scene's another.

Nathan Schur:

Time, the final third.

Nathan Schur:

Toward the end of this movie, I actually start to get a little lost and confused what goes on here.

Nathan Schur:

Because to fast forward here, Arlene Page is found dead and there's a lot of tape recorders.

Nathan Schur:

There's a scene where Clute and Frank get into a fight and Clue is attacking Frank.

Nathan Schur:

I don't even know what happens here, why Clue reached a boiling point.

Brianna Butterworth:

I was so glad that we saw some emotion from him, though.

Nathan Schur:

It's the only time.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's really the only time.

Brianna Butterworth:

And, you know, I was thinking about, why is this such a great character study for Brie and why is it so rare?

Brianna Butterworth:

Pikula is really employing so many different devices to tell us different sides of Brie.

Brianna Butterworth:

We see her therapist and those shots where she's alone, we have the actual narrative of the film.

Brianna Butterworth:

And then we get to hear her in these haunting voiceovers through the recording when the killer or the person stalking her is calling.

Brianna Butterworth:

And, you know, so we really see all these different dimensions of Brie and who she is with different people.

Brianna Butterworth:

I mean, that voiceover stuff is chilling.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, it's meant to be sexy at the time, but when you hear it back, it has a whole different context.

Brianna Butterworth:

We don't ever get that for Clute.

Brianna Butterworth:

We see him a lot, but we at that.

Brianna Butterworth:

That is only afforded to Brie.

Brianna Butterworth:

But Klute is really a paper doll, I think, in this movie.

Brianna Butterworth:

And it's a little bit.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think a little bit of a weakness of the film.

Brianna Butterworth:

Donald Sutherland could do a lot more, I think.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

We have a Gene Stapleton sighting.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like what we do.

Nathan Schur:

She's all in the family.

Nathan Schur:

Edith Bunker, you're not familiar with.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, no, I am.

Brianna Butterworth:

I just don't remember where she was in the movie.

Nathan Schur:

She plays Goldfarb secretary.

Brianna Butterworth:

Oh, my God.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yes.

Nathan Schur:

I thought this was everyone's friend.

Brianna Butterworth:

Poor man.

Nathan Schur:

Everyone's.

Nathan Schur:

This is so hysterical because I feel like she's playing Edith Bunker, the same character.

Nathan Schur:

It's like this is like she just left Archie.

Nathan Schur:

She Goes to work, and this is her day job, straight from, like, the set of all in the Family.

Nathan Schur:

Same talks, the same way.

Brianna Butterworth:

Everything that happens once we get to this point in the film, I think is, you know, as much as I expected it.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I had figured out, you know, that it's not about Grundam and those letters were faked.

Brianna Butterworth:

He was not leading a double life.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's the person who actually set up the investigation.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's his boss.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's this man.

Brianna Butterworth:

And Jane Fonda would have no way of remembering him, which is said multiple times throughout the movie, which adds to this facelessness that you talk about.

Brianna Butterworth:

And so when we get to this final showdown.

Brianna Butterworth:

Oh, terrifying.

Nathan Schur:

So this character, his name is Peter Cable, played by Charles Keoffier Ciaofi.

Nathan Schur:

And I have to admit, B.

Nathan Schur:

I.

Nathan Schur:

I was really perplexed and underwhelmed how this movie wraps up.

Nathan Schur:

I didn't find him that interesting.

Nathan Schur:

You know, Peter Cable, he's this.

Nathan Schur:

You know, he's just portrayed as a unfeeling, cold bastard.

Nathan Schur:

You know, I.

Nathan Schur:

I find, you know, it's unnerving how he rationalized the murders he committed.

Nathan Schur:

Koot shows up at exactly the right moment to save Brie.

Nathan Schur:

And I don't.

Nathan Schur:

This is why I don't get.

Nathan Schur:

I suppose Cable realized he wasn't going to escape and decides to take his own life by jumping out a window.

Nathan Schur:

I think that's what happens.

Brianna Butterworth:

Was there a shot?

Nathan Schur:

No, no.

Nathan Schur:

He just.

Nathan Schur:

I think he just jumps out the window.

Nathan Schur:

And I'm still wrestling with this because I found it very unsatisfying.

Nathan Schur:

Number one, that's how it ends.

Nathan Schur:

But maybe that's the point.

Nathan Schur:

For all the crimes Cable committed, he won't be arrested or tried for any of them.

Nathan Schur:

He so willingly took his own life that it gives us little satisfaction that he's dead and the case is closed.

Nathan Schur:

But it's unsatisfying.

Nathan Schur:

You know, who knows what other crimes Cable may have committed?

Nathan Schur:

And I bet there are other car girls out there that he probably murdered or was responsible.

Brianna Butterworth:

I mean, there were.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

And we'll never know.

Nathan Schur:

And I think that might be what the point is.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, I think as a mystery, it's not exciting or inventive, you know, so that aspect of it really just didn't do it for me.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like I said earlier, I think we could have.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think we could have done away with that whole part of it.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's Jane Fonda's performance, even here, where she's trying to be a little flip and resolute.

Brianna Butterworth:

Oh, no, this is totally fine as he's trying to justify his murders to her.

Brianna Butterworth:

But really, this movie has two endings.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, so you can look at this as the unsatisfying ending or you can settle with what I think is the better ambiguous ending, where again, we get to hear voiceover versus something on screen and they're not matching up.

Brianna Butterworth:

I don't think.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Because I think it ends with what sounds like probably a voice message or tape.

Nathan Schur:

Tape.

Nathan Schur:

What do they call it back in the 70s or so?

Nathan Schur:

I don't know.

Nathan Schur:

But where I think it's a message left for her therapist sounds like where it says that she's moving on with her life with John Clute.

Nathan Schur:

But again, it's very ambiguous how committed.

Brianna Butterworth:

And yeah, it's just a guy.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's not really gonna work.

Brianna Butterworth:

And, you know, she says, but I.

Nathan Schur:

Might see you next week also after.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Which I like that.

Nathan Schur:

I do like that.

Nathan Schur:

Because she's never really far from the life.

Brianna Butterworth:

And as a character study of Brie, I think this movie's amazing on almost any other level.

Brianna Butterworth:

Eh, it's okay.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's serviceable.

Nathan Schur:

Any other thoughts on this, or should we take a break?

Brianna Butterworth:

Let's take a break.

Nathan Schur:

Let's take a break.

Unknown:

You ain't even sat down yet.

Unknown:

Man, that TV over there, since you've.

Nathan Schur:

Been in the room is a woman.

Unknown:

With her breast sisters hanging out.

Unknown:

You ain't even bothered to look.

Unknown:

You just been clacking me.

Unknown:

I know I'm pretty, but I ain't as pretty as a couple of titties.

Unknown:

I'm not eating.

Unknown:

Cause I'm not hungry.

Unknown:

I'm not sitting.

Unknown:

Cause I'm not saying I ain't looking at the movie.

Unknown:

Cause I already seen it seven years ago.

Unknown:

It's the Mac.

Unknown:

Max, Julian, Carroll Speed and Richard Pryor.

Unknown:

I ain't scared of you.

Unknown:

I just don't like you.

Unknown:

That envelope right there had some payoff money.

Unknown:

Alabama's moving on to some greener pastures.

Unknown:

We're not negotiating.

Unknown:

I don't like to barter them.

Unknown:

So that envelope right there is for my peace of mind.

Unknown:

My peace of mind is worth that much.

Unknown:

Not one penny more.

Nathan Schur:

Thank you for everyone who's tuned into our Pod Padcast.

Nathan Schur:

If you're enjoying it, our podcast, please hit the subscribe button to get new episodes in your feed every week.

Nathan Schur:

We don't have a big budget for paid advertising, so we rely on you, our listeners, to help us spread the word.

Nathan Schur:

The best way to support us is by sharing our podcast with friends or Posting out on our on social media.

Nathan Schur:

You can find us@backtotheframerate.com or follow us at backtotheframerate on Facebook, Instagram threads, TikTok, YouTube and Twitter.

Nathan Schur:

Lastly, we'd be incredibly grateful if you left us a five star review on Apple podcasts or Spotify.

Nathan Schur:

We thank you for your support.

Nathan Schur:

B We're gonna get to our final thoughts, our ratings and our verdict on Clute.

Nathan Schur:

Are you ready?

Brianna Butterworth:

I'm so ready.

Nathan Schur:

Do you want me to go first?

Nathan Schur:

Do you want to go?

Brianna Butterworth:

You can go.

Nathan Schur:

I'll go.

Nathan Schur:

I'll go.

Nathan Schur:

All right.

Nathan Schur:

I think this movie has an incredible setup.

Nathan Schur:

An even better act two where our protagonists get very deep into this mystery.

Nathan Schur:

But the final act I find very disjointed handling the very the few cinematic confrontations.

Nathan Schur:

The third act, similar to last week with Night Moves, I felt very rushed.

Nathan Schur:

As with this one.

Nathan Schur:

I think Jane Fonda is wonderful in this film.

Nathan Schur:

I didn't really talk much about it, but I questioned the authenticity, if her character, like her, would in fact really exist in the world of call girls.

Nathan Schur:

Jane Fonda herself, you know, like we talked about, had serious doubts if she could pull off this character.

Nathan Schur:

And even, and you know, as we know, she just before the movie started, she tried to pull out of this whole film with Faye Dunaway instead.

Nathan Schur:

But Fonda is still excellent here.

Nathan Schur:

But she may have been onto something because I could buy her as a struggling New York actress or model, but I don't know if I really bought her as a call girl.

Nathan Schur:

She just has so much confidence.

Nathan Schur:

And I don't know if this version of a call girl really exists in the real world at least.

Brianna Butterworth:

I've never seen it.

Nathan Schur:

I've never seen it depicted in a movie before.

Nathan Schur:

But she just had this air of like being above it all, which I just don't know if that's realistic.

Nathan Schur:

Donald Sutherland is playing the Terminator.

Nathan Schur:

If the Terminator was programmed to be a detective and not on a mission to kill Sarah Connor.

Nathan Schur:

I keep thinking of Kyle Reese's line, listen, listen and understand.

Nathan Schur:

The Terminator is out there.

Nathan Schur:

It can't be bargained with.

Nathan Schur:

It can't be reasoned with.

Nathan Schur:

It doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear.

Nathan Schur:

It absolutely will not stop until you are dead.

Nathan Schur:

This is really, I think what James Cameron was modeling the Terminator after.

Nathan Schur:

Just look at Clue.

Nathan Schur:

Donald Sutherland's performance.

Nathan Schur:

Arnold.

Nathan Schur:

There you go.

Nathan Schur:

I wish there was more to his character.

Nathan Schur:

I just wish there was more.

Nathan Schur:

And it's just not much of an arc either.

Nathan Schur:

I don't really know where he ends any differently than when he begins.

Nathan Schur:

Overall, like I said, I like the setup.

Nathan Schur:

I think it is an intriguing character study.

Nathan Schur:

I love the focus on the Jane Fondant character she may be.

Nathan Schur:

This may be one of the most strongest portrayals of women in cinema I've ever seen.

Nathan Schur:

Very good film, and I'm giving it a strong 3.5.

Nathan Schur:

But this movie's falling short for vault status because I think the third act could have been a lot better.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, I totally bought her as an escort.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, that wasn't a hard sell for me.

Brianna Butterworth:

Again, Brie is the best part of this movie.

Brianna Butterworth:

She is the shining light.

Brianna Butterworth:

There's so many other elements to this movie.

Brianna Butterworth:

I mean, Pikula was really making a perfect character study and the rest falls apart.

Brianna Butterworth:

I don't know that character study is enough.

Brianna Butterworth:

It would have been enough to carry the whole film if they had trimmed out the fat.

Brianna Butterworth:

But by trying to add in those other things, it just leaves me unsatisfied with too many elements to really have, like, given it the masterpiece, you know, sort of title.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I do feel like, in retrospect, a lot of people are revisiting this movie now and recognizing it as, you know, probably better than folks thought it was when it came out.

Brianna Butterworth:

But I'm with you.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's a strong three and a half for me.

Brianna Butterworth:

I probably would have put it in the vault just for Jane Fonda's character study because I don't know how often we're going to see that in the early 70s.

Brianna Butterworth:

So I just.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think that is special enough to have carried it.

Brianna Butterworth:

But I'm not married to that.

Brianna Butterworth:

I don't want to.

Brianna Butterworth:

I.

Brianna Butterworth:

But, you know, I don't want to be holding this to a higher standard than I hold some of these more masculine movies.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, so are you saying yes or no?

Brianna Butterworth:

I would have said yes.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

What do we do when we have just two of us split?

Nathan Schur:

It's not majority.

Nathan Schur:

So I guess for now we'll pick a number.

Nathan Schur:

We're gonna say at the moment, no, it's not going to make the vote unless we have our third host who might chime in one day have an opinion on this, but we'll.

Nathan Schur:

All right, table this for now.

Nathan Schur:

We're not going to make a final decision.

Nathan Schur:

Maybe when we get to our end of month film noir awards and Sam has had a chance to chime in on this, we will have a final decision, a reason to tune in for that episode.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, we are going to get to our next segment, which is Going to be our film noir slumber party.

Nathan Schur:

It's game time.

Brianna Butterworth:

Game time.

Unknown:

The guest list has been compiled so that you go out in style.

Unknown:

You don't mind if my friends introduce themselves to you, Leroy.

Nathan Schur:

Begin.

Brianna Butterworth:

Begin.

Nathan Schur:

It's our film noir slumber party.

Nathan Schur:

Not a very film noir bumper, but it's what I had.

Brianna Butterworth:

It was good.

Brianna Butterworth:

I liked it.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, so this is what we're doing.

Nathan Schur:

It is.

Nathan Schur:

You know, we're going to.

Nathan Schur:

We're going to have a slumber party be.

Nathan Schur:

We're going to invite some friends over.

Nathan Schur:

We're going to watch four movies that are in the film noir or neo noir genre.

Nathan Schur:

We're going to.

Nathan Schur:

We're going to watch movies from 8:00 to 4 in the morning.

Nathan Schur:

And we each have four movies that are on our list that we are going to submit for consideration.

Nathan Schur:

After we describe these four movies or mention what they are, we are then going to take turns picking one of these four movies that will be ultimately shown at our slumber party.

Nathan Schur:

So those are two of the movies that will be shown.

Nathan Schur:

Then I will pick one movie of the remaining three from your list and you will pick one of one movie from the remaining three movies from my list.

Nathan Schur:

Thus, we will have four films.

Nathan Schur:

A perfect four.

Nathan Schur:

On top of that, we are going to pick what snacks or beverages.

Brianna Butterworth:

Very controlling.

Brianna Butterworth:

I don't know if our slumber party guests are going to love us after that.

Brianna Butterworth:

We tell them when to watch what movie and what to eat.

Nathan Schur:

It's for us.

Nathan Schur:

We, people at home can do whatever they want to do, but we can figure out what we're.

Nathan Schur:

How are we going to stay awake for these movies?

Nathan Schur:

With caffeine and sugar or heavy carbs, you know, whatever it takes.

Nathan Schur:

What we might be ordering out, you know, and showing up, who knows?

Nathan Schur:

It doesn't matter.

Nathan Schur:

I haven't.

Nathan Schur:

I'll be honest, I have not put any thought into this yet.

Nathan Schur:

So we're just going to wing that part.

Brianna Butterworth:

Oh, boy.

Brianna Butterworth:

Good.

Nathan Schur:

We'll see.

Nathan Schur:

So I'm going to pull up my list here.

Nathan Schur:

And shall I go first?

Nathan Schur:

Do you want to go first?

Brianna Butterworth:

No, you do it.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, so I have my four movies here.

Nathan Schur:

I am going to begin again.

Nathan Schur:

I went through the entire, like, last century of movies to pick from here.

Nathan Schur:

So it could be from the 40s through the 40s through the 90s.

Brianna Butterworth:

And for listeners at home, Nathan and I don't know each other's lists.

Brianna Butterworth:

So this is.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's a surprise.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, I'm gonna go first.

Nathan Schur:

Classic film noir.

Nathan Schur:

ht, I'm Going with Gilda from:

Brianna Butterworth:

It's on my list.

Nathan Schur:

On the way.

Nathan Schur:

Come on.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yep.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, so perfect.

Nathan Schur:

Spicy cocktail for a film.

Brianna Butterworth:

I had a spicy margarita.

Nathan Schur:

Oh, my God.

Nathan Schur:

We're too.

Nathan Schur:

In symphony.

Nathan Schur:

It's about a dangerous triangle between the three characters.

Nathan Schur:

A brooding gambler named Johnny.

Nathan Schur:

Glenn Ford plays that it's wealthy boss, and of course, Rita Hayworth.

Nathan Schur:

The film sizzles with tension with as Gilda and Johnny, it's got smoldering glances and all the tangled love, hate energy you could want.

Nathan Schur:

And you got iconic costumes, moody cinematography.

Nathan Schur:

And plus, who wouldn't want to witness Rita Hayward's legendary Put the blame on Mame.

Nathan Schur:

You know, number around.

Brianna Butterworth:

They said that old mother Nature was up to her old trick.

Nathan Schur:

That's the story that went around.

Brianna Butterworth:

But here's the real low down.

Unknown:

Put the blame on main, boy.

Unknown:

Put the blame on main.

Nathan Schur:

That's why I'm.

Nathan Schur:

I am nominating yoga.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, I'm with you.

Brianna Butterworth:

I love it.

Nathan Schur:

So you have the choice.

Nathan Schur:

Since it's on your list, you could.

Brianna Butterworth:

I might pick a different movie.

Nathan Schur:

Use your strategy however you want, so.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Okay.

Brianna Butterworth:

All right.

Brianna Butterworth:

So my classic pick.

Brianna Butterworth:

Another amazing femme fatale.

Brianna Butterworth:

of our Lord Whitney Houston,:

Brianna Butterworth:

Of course, the amazing Barbara Stanwyck vehicle.

Brianna Butterworth:

We have an incredible femme fatale here.

Brianna Butterworth:

She is jumping off the screen.

Brianna Butterworth:

This movie has twists and turns and trains, and for a movie pairing snack, I picked a dark chocolate caramel because that is, to me, just everything that Barbara Stanwyck is.

Nathan Schur:

Oh, you want to do the snacks now?

Brianna Butterworth:

I mean, we did spicy margarita first.

Nathan Schur:

I was figuring we would do our snacks once we have our.

Brianna Butterworth:

Okay, fine.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, that's fine.

Nathan Schur:

But I like the spicy margarita.

Nathan Schur:

I want one now.

Nathan Schur:

Okay.

Brianna Butterworth:

All right.

Brianna Butterworth:

What's your second pick?

Nathan Schur:

My second pick?

Nathan Schur:

You know what?

Nathan Schur:

I want to bring to our film noir slumber party some unhinged Gary Oldman.

Nathan Schur:

g with Romeo is bleeding from:

Nathan Schur:

Directed by Peter, I think.

Nathan Schur:

Medic.

Nathan Schur:

So this film follows Jack, played by Gary Oldman, and he's a crooked cop whose life is just spiraling out of control when he's ordered to take down a seductive, ruthless Russian hit woman played by Lena Olin.

Nathan Schur:

There's a lot of dark humor in this film, and it's definitely taking a lot of cues from classic film noir, but it's really turning.

Nathan Schur:

It's on Its head.

Nathan Schur:

It's got the dangerous femme fatale type in here.

Nathan Schur:

Detective getting in over his head.

Nathan Schur:

But I love Romeo's Bleeding because it's just very stylish and Gary Oldman is really terrific in this.

Nathan Schur:

So Romeo's Bleeding,:

Nathan Schur:

Very underrated film.

Nathan Schur:

A lot of people passed right over that when I came out.

Nathan Schur:

I don't think I really got much of a theatrical release.

Nathan Schur:

I think it just came.

Nathan Schur:

May have come.

Nathan Schur:

Gone straight to video.

Nathan Schur:

Possibly.

Nathan Schur:

Small, small release.

Brianna Butterworth:

I feel like I've seen it.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

Nice.

Nathan Schur:

Okay.

Brianna Butterworth:

All right, all right.

Brianna Butterworth:

I am going.

Brianna Butterworth:

m going with pale flower from:

Brianna Butterworth:

Have you seen this?

Nathan Schur:

I haven't.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's incredible.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's directed by Masahiro Shinoda and it's this wonderful story about a man who just gets out of prison and is tangled up with a yakuza and meets a young woman who is gambling and she wants to raise the stakes higher and higher.

Brianna Butterworth:

This movie is dripping with style.

Brianna Butterworth:

It takes the black and white of American noirs and makes them silvery and metallic and it rips off the screen.

Brianna Butterworth:

Incredible.

Nathan Schur:

I don't know this, but now I'm putting this on my watch list.

Nathan Schur:

No matter what.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's a must watch.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, that's great.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Okay.

Nathan Schur:

I'm probably not gonna stray too far from your pick, B.

Nathan Schur:

Because I want to submit for consideration this film not.

Nathan Schur:

Well, I don't know if I guess it's considered noir when I say the title.

Nathan Schur:

Maybe people don't think of it as noir, but it follows so many of the rules of a suspenseful noir mystery.

Nathan Schur:

m going with Akira Kurosawa's:

Brianna Butterworth:

That's a great movie.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yes, yes.

Nathan Schur:

It puts a unique spin on noir with its class conscious, you know, kidnapping plot.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think it counts.

Nathan Schur:

It totally does.

Nathan Schur:

Which I think makes a perfect film for noir themed Movie Night.

Nathan Schur:

The story centers on Toshiro Mifune, because who else would be in a Curacao movie?

Brianna Butterworth:

Sure, yeah.

Nathan Schur:

This successful businessman whose life is thrown into chaos when the kidnapper mistakenly abducts his chauffeur's son instead of his own.

Nathan Schur:

And Mifune faces this moral dilemma.

Nathan Schur:

Save the child or protect his own fortune, I think, is what happens.

Nathan Schur:

He's got gritty urban visuals and moral complexity all scream classic noir.

Nathan Schur:

But what's special here is that Kurosawa adds his own depth by exploring like social class divides.

Nathan Schur:

This is my favorite Curacao movie.

Nathan Schur:

Also so that's why I am throwing it in, throwing it into the ring.

Brianna Butterworth:

Awesome.

Brianna Butterworth:

Great choice.

Brianna Butterworth:

I have like three.

Brianna Butterworth:

I picked some extras and I was like, we'll just sort of see how this goes.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I'm really struggling right now.

Brianna Butterworth:

I'm so torn.

Brianna Butterworth:

I'm gonna have to go.

Brianna Butterworth:

I want something a little modern.

Brianna Butterworth:

I'm gonna go with Gone Girl.

Brianna Butterworth:

Just other super strong feminine character here.

Nathan Schur:

Cool.

Brianna Butterworth:

Again, just like you were saying.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think it follows enough of the rules.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think this could totally be a noir.

Nathan Schur:

I think so.

Nathan Schur:

100%.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Gone girl.

Nathan Schur:

Fincher.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yep.

Nathan Schur:

Is that:

Brianna Butterworth:

Oh, don't remind me.

Brianna Butterworth:

I don't know.

Nathan Schur:

I think it just had its 10 year anniversary.

Brianna Butterworth:

Oh, it's terrifying.

Brianna Butterworth:

I rewatched it recently.

Brianna Butterworth:

I don't remember what the impetus was, but that movie still is so riveting.

Brianna Butterworth:

If you don't know the twist that's coming.

Brianna Butterworth:

Ooh.

Brianna Butterworth:

So fun to watch.

Nathan Schur:

Awesome.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, my last pick for consideration, I am going with Witness.

Nathan Schur:

Peter Weir,:

Nathan Schur:

This film has come up so much in this podcast that we should probably make it a drinking game.

Nathan Schur:

It's practically a perfect movie.

Nathan Schur:

Young Amish boy witnesses the brutal murder in Philadelphia and Detective John Book, played by Harrison Ford, dives into the investigation.

Nathan Schur:

Only discover the killers are cops.

Nathan Schur:

So he's forced to hide in Amish country, where he finds himself, you know, torn between duty as a cop and his growing bond with Amish people, especially the boy's mom, played by a very fetching Kelly McGillis.

Nathan Schur:

I think this film would add a very interesting twist to our film noir slumber party because it it bucks the convention of the urban setting, number one.

Nathan Schur:

Instead, we're in the serene backdrop of Amish country and the Amish community.

Nathan Schur:

Cinematography is gorgeous.

Nathan Schur:

Tension between the innocence of the Amish people and the corrupt police is biting.

Nathan Schur:

And plus, it's a really great fish out of water movie too, to boot.

Nathan Schur:

So.

Nathan Schur:

Witness.

Brianna Butterworth:

We really like Peter Weir on this podcast.

Brianna Butterworth:

For folks who've never got.

Brianna Butterworth:

We really, we're big fans.

Brianna Butterworth:

Anyone in Australia wants to give us a call, we like what you've done.

Nathan Schur:

Last.

Nathan Schur:

Last pick.

Brianna Butterworth:

Sure.

Brianna Butterworth:

Blood Simple.

Nathan Schur:

This close.

Nathan Schur:

It was this close.

Brianna Butterworth:

But I was surprised you didn't do.

Nathan Schur:

It because B, I knew you were going to.

Nathan Schur:

I'm like, blood simple is on my list.

Nathan Schur:

I'm like, no, be is doing that one.

Nathan Schur:

Blood Simple.

Nathan Schur:

Coen brothers.

Brianna Butterworth:

I mean, how do you not want to watch it?

Brianna Butterworth:

It's such a fun movie.

Nathan Schur:

It.

Nathan Schur:

I don't know how you don't want to watch it.

Nathan Schur:

r picks are, we've got Gilda,:

Nathan Schur:

We got Pale Flower from:

Nathan Schur:

ical order, Blood simple from:

Nathan Schur:

Skip the 70s, which might make sense because we're in the middle of the 70s.

Brianna Butterworth:

Right.

Brianna Butterworth:

I was like, oh, interesting.

Brianna Butterworth:

Because I.

Brianna Butterworth:

I was thinking I would probably have added Night Moves to this list, but I wanted switch it up.

Brianna Butterworth:

Also not a great slumber party movie.

Brianna Butterworth:

Like Gone Girl is a great slumber party movie.

Nathan Schur:

All right, so here's where it gets fun.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Because I'm gonna pick one of my films that I'm gonna definitely add to this list.

Nathan Schur:

You're gonna pick one of your films?

Nathan Schur:

Let's start with that.

Brianna Butterworth:

Okay, so yeah, you've been going first.

Brianna Butterworth:

You do.

Nathan Schur:

It's curious because we have a.

Nathan Schur:

There's a lot of, A lot of synchronicity between our list here because we both have two movies very similar from the 40s.

Nathan Schur:

We have two Japanese films in here and we've got two movies like Neo Noirs from the mid-80s.

Nathan Schur:

And then we have two relatively, you know, newer films that are like Neo noir twist on the genre as well with Romeo's Weenie and Gone Girl.

Nathan Schur:

We really are in sync here, B.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah, we are.

Nathan Schur:

It's kind of weird.

Nathan Schur:

So I.

Nathan Schur:

But I'm gonna put high.

Nathan Schur:

I'm putting high and low one as my.

Nathan Schur:

Because I love high.

Nathan Schur:

Low.

Nathan Schur:

I haven't seen it in about, yeah, eight years or so.

Nathan Schur:

So I.

Brianna Butterworth:

Awesome.

Nathan Schur:

Wanna.

Nathan Schur:

And I have my 4k that I haven't opened yet.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

Oh my gosh, you gotta do that.

Nathan Schur:

All right, so B, from your list, you gotta pick one.

Brianna Butterworth:

I mean, I put together a good list.

Brianna Butterworth:

I will say, you know what, I'll do a movie pairing with you.

Brianna Butterworth:

I say we gotta do Pale Flower because I think you need to see that movie.

Nathan Schur:

I want to see it.

Nathan Schur:

So Pale Flower.

Nathan Schur:

So we're starting in Japan.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

All right, so interesting.

Nathan Schur:

All right, so High and Low and Pale Flower starting.

Brianna Butterworth:

I love a theme night, you know.

Nathan Schur:

Are we going to stick with a theme?

Brianna Butterworth:

Well, it's.

Brianna Butterworth:

So far we just have really niche Japanese noir and.

Brianna Butterworth:

All right, so now you pick one of mine.

Nathan Schur:

I have to pick one of yours?

Nathan Schur:

Yep, I'm gonna pick one of yours.

Nathan Schur:

So that comes down to Double Indemnity, Gone Girl or Blood Simple.

Nathan Schur:

And this is a no brainer.

Nathan Schur:

For me, I'm going with Blood Simple.

Brianna Butterworth:

Nice, nice.

Nathan Schur:

Blood simple from:

Nathan Schur:

All right.

Brianna Butterworth:

And it's a no brainer for me.

Brianna Butterworth:

I'm going Gilda because I wanted to in the first place.

Nathan Schur:

Gilda:

Brianna Butterworth:

This is good.

Brianna Butterworth:

This gives us a nice breadth of the genre.

Nathan Schur:

So we have two assignments left here.

Nathan Schur:

How we want to order these because we've got two Japanese films from the 60s.

Nathan Schur:

We Got Blood simple and we got Gilda.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think we need to end on Blood Simple.

Nathan Schur:

I don't disagree with that.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, so that'll be.

Nathan Schur:

We're ending that at.

Nathan Schur:

So we have.

Nathan Schur:

Here's a.

Nathan Schur:

Let's do this quick.

Nathan Schur:

So we have 8pm we got 10pm we got 12am and we got 2am so we're going to put Blood simple in our 2am slot.

Nathan Schur:

2am slot.

Nathan Schur:

How do we want to start this night?

Nathan Schur:

Do we want to start it?

Brianna Butterworth:

How long is High and Low?

Nathan Schur:

We're just going to assume everything fits in a two hour Z.

Brianna Butterworth:

No, I know, but I just feel like we might want to start with High and low.

Brianna Butterworth:

I feel like High and low is a little heady.

Nathan Schur:

High and Low is heavy.

Nathan Schur:

It's 2 hours and 23 minutes.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, I feel like that's.

Brianna Butterworth:

We need to start there and then maybe watch Gilda High and low.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah, 2 hours and 23 minutes.

Nathan Schur:

Let's.

Nathan Schur:

I'm fine with that.

Nathan Schur:

That's a great way to start the night because.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, it's a great movie.

Nathan Schur:

And how long is the.

Nathan Schur:

In your movie?

Nathan Schur:

The Pale Flower I think was only an hour and 38 minutes.

Nathan Schur:

So we'll put in Gilda.

Nathan Schur:

We'll put in Gilda at 10pm I think that takes us to midnight.

Nathan Schur:

then I like the fact that our:

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

So that therefore will put in Pale Flower there in Blood simple simple at 2am Sounds amazing.

Brianna Butterworth:

Right?

Nathan Schur:

That's when I want my pizza.

Nathan Schur:

And like really?

Nathan Schur:

Yeah, I'm white knuckling it at that point.

Nathan Schur:

All right, so high and low, 8pm what do you want to eat?

Nathan Schur:

What do you want?

Nathan Schur:

What do you want to drink at 8:00?

Nathan Schur:

What do you want for dinner?

Nathan Schur:

Are we just doing.

Nathan Schur:

I'm assuming we've eaten by now, right?

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, High and low.

Brianna Butterworth:

What do I want?

Nathan Schur:

It's kind of like a.

Nathan Schur:

A city.

Nathan Schur:

Well, I, you know, for Gilda I want like a Cosmo or, or some that cocktail.

Brianna Butterworth:

No, I was thinking about this actually in terms of just like I would I would love some chocolates.

Brianna Butterworth:

I think I was just on a chocolate cake for this.

Brianna Butterworth:

Those pocky candies I thought would be fun.

Brianna Butterworth:

I want.

Brianna Butterworth:

I want candy.

Brianna Butterworth:

Candy.

Brianna Butterworth:

You know, it's the third movie.

Brianna Butterworth:

Then I.

Brianna Butterworth:

I want, like, I want waxy candy.

Brianna Butterworth:

I want Twizzlers.

Brianna Butterworth:

I want.

Brianna Butterworth:

Want Nerds.

Nathan Schur:

Gummy clusters for 2am blood simple.

Nathan Schur:

I'm getting into the carbs.

Brianna Butterworth:

Interesting.

Nathan Schur:

I am.

Nathan Schur:

I'm getting into, like, pizza.

Nathan Schur:

Not bad pizza.

Nathan Schur:

Like, I'm not ordering Domino's.

Nathan Schur:

I'm getting, like, some good, like, brick oven support this.

Brianna Butterworth:

Get some pizza.

Nathan Schur:

Wheel pizza.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

I don't know what you like in pizza.

Nathan Schur:

We don't get that detailed, but we're getting some good pizza that.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, I think pizza's right.

Nathan Schur:

Okay, cool.

Brianna Butterworth:

Feels like they made that movie on a shoestring budget of, like, pizza and sleeping in cars.

Nathan Schur:

Yep.

Brianna Butterworth:

So, all right.

Nathan Schur:

High and low.

Nathan Schur:

Gilda, Pale Flower, and Blood simple is our film noir neo noir slumber party.

Nathan Schur:

Sounds good.

Nathan Schur:

Maybe that should be just a theme month, you know?

Nathan Schur:

Okay, cool.

Nathan Schur:

That was fun.

Brianna Butterworth:

That was fun.

Nathan Schur:

All right, let's do our quick weekly highlight, and then we're out of here.

Nathan Schur:

Should I go first?

Nathan Schur:

I've been going first all night, so, yeah, I guess I'll mention.

Nathan Schur:

So I saw a lot of films this week, but I think the only thing I'm gonna mention is the one movie that came to max in the last week that I've been waiting to see for a long time, but I finally got around to seeing it.

Nathan Schur:

I saw Tuesday.

Nathan Schur:

Tuesday is a new film that I heard a lot about coming out of Telluride from last year, and I had heard awesome things about it.

Nathan Schur:

And I hate to say that it delivers on ambition and originality.

Brianna Butterworth:

For sure you respect it more than you like it.

Nathan Schur:

Maybe.

Nathan Schur:

Julie Streyfus is in this, and she is stretching herself in ways I've never seen her do before.

Nathan Schur:

She plays a mother who was grappling with the challenges of caring for her chronically ill teenager who.

Nathan Schur:

Her name and her name.

Nathan Schur:

Her daughter's name is Tuesday, which is how this movie is named.

Nathan Schur:

And it's played perfectly by actress named Lola Pettigrew, who I don't think I've seen in the film before.

Nathan Schur:

This takes an unusual turn when death arrives in the form of this, like, mysterious talking bird that can change sizes.

Nathan Schur:

And it's interesting, but it's pushing both the mother and daughter to confront mortality in a very surreal way.

Nathan Schur:

This movie is not for everyone, and I'm honestly very mixed myself, but it's truly an unforgettable experience watching this.

Nathan Schur:

But if, if anyone's watching this and could be triggered by, you know, experiences of this, it's not, it's not for you, you know, but it is something that I've been real.

Nathan Schur:

I've heard that Julia Louise Dreyfus is getting some Oscar buzz for this, so I wanted to check this out.

Nathan Schur:

And it is something to behold.

Nathan Schur:

But I didn't love this movie.

Nathan Schur:

I really wanted to like it, but it was.

Brianna Butterworth:

It happens.

Nathan Schur:

It happens.

Nathan Schur:

But it was.

Nathan Schur:

I'm glad I saw it.

Nathan Schur:

And I think that the Dreyfus will get some Oscar buzz for this.

Nathan Schur:

I think there's.

Nathan Schur:

There that's already in the talks.

Brianna Butterworth:

Is that streaming somewhere or did you go see.

Nathan Schur:

It's on Max.

Brianna Butterworth:

Nice.

Brianna Butterworth:

Okay.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, check it.

Brianna Butterworth:

Well, I just dove deep in a pula this week and I decided to watch his 70s catalog.

Brianna Butterworth:

So that's the Paranoia trilogy.

Brianna Butterworth:

It's Love, Pain and the Whole Damn Thing, which has an incredible young Maggie Smith who's doing way more than that movie deserves because it's not his best.

Brianna Butterworth:

And I mentioned earlier Here Comes a Horseman, which is James Caan and Jane Fonda.

Brianna Butterworth:

And that movie is really wonderful.

Brianna Butterworth:

There's one movie in:

Brianna Butterworth:

I put a good deal in it and feel like I understand him a little bit more.

Brianna Butterworth:

Loves a character study only slightly terrifying to watch to watch all the President's Men immediately before election day.

Nathan Schur:

But we are recording this on Monday, November 4, day before election.

Nathan Schur:

So.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, so if we sound chipper or anything, that's why nothing's happened yet.

Nathan Schur:

Nothing's happened yet.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah, nothing's happened yet.

Brianna Butterworth:

But yeah, really interesting filmography.

Brianna Butterworth:

I want to dig more into it.

Brianna Butterworth:

Know I've seen Sophie's Choice, but there's some classics of his that I haven't seen.

Brianna Butterworth:

And just learning more about.

Brianna Butterworth:

About his style.

Brianna Butterworth:

Definitely his work with Gordon Willis is.

Brianna Butterworth:

Is the best.

Nathan Schur:

I didn't really make any notes on it, but I did take my youngest daughter out to see the Wild Robot over the weekend.

Brianna Butterworth:

Oh, I heard that's great.

Nathan Schur:

It is as good as everyone says it is.

Nathan Schur:

I actually was bawling at the end of the movie.

Nathan Schur:

It is that good.

Nathan Schur:

I guess you could compare it to things like maybe like the Iron Giant.

Brianna Butterworth:

Oh.

Nathan Schur:

But if this movie loses out to Inside out two for best animated film, I am leaving this planet.

Nathan Schur:

And this movie is one of the best animated films I've seen in years.

Brianna Butterworth:

Sure.

Nathan Schur:

So it is.

Nathan Schur:

It is that good.

Nathan Schur:

I think it's all I saw in the theater, but.

Nathan Schur:

And it's killing in the theater still, like in its sixth or seventh week.

Nathan Schur:

It's only dropping like a few percentage points every week, and yet it's making banks still.

Nathan Schur:

But I think you can rent it or buy it online right now.

Nathan Schur:

But see it in the theater.

Nathan Schur:

It was so beautiful.

Nathan Schur:

It's not traditional animation.

Nathan Schur:

It almost has, like, a painterly quality to it, which I didn't know it was going to look like because I never even saw a trailer for it.

Nathan Schur:

I just had to take my daughter out to see something this weekend.

Nathan Schur:

It is that good.

Nathan Schur:

It is worth seeing.

Nathan Schur:

It's worth seeing in the theater.

Brianna Butterworth:

Oh, that makes me happy.

Nathan Schur:

Yeah.

Nathan Schur:

Okay.

Nathan Schur:

I got nothing else.

Nathan Schur:

Maybe we should call it a night and.

Brianna Butterworth:

Sounds good.

Nathan Schur:

Hopefully we are here next week.

Brianna Butterworth:

Yeah.

Brianna Butterworth:

Thanks for coming to my slumber party.

Nathan Schur:

All right.

Nathan Schur:

That is the show for this week.

Nathan Schur:

Back to the Frame Rate is part of the Weston Media Podcast Network.

Nathan Schur:

Special thanks to Brian Ellsworth for our show opening.

Nathan Schur:

On behalf of all of us, we bid you farewell from the fallout Shelter.

Nathan Schur:

If you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and leave a rating and review on Apple Podcast, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform.

Nathan Schur:

For more episodes, go to backtotheframe rate.com and follow us on social media at Back to the Frame Rate.

Nathan Schur:

Your support brightens our bunker.

Nathan Schur:

Until next time, stay with us.

Nathan Schur:

Keep hope alive, everyone, and share our show with your friends.

Nathan Schur:

This is the end of our transmission.

Nathan Schur:

Back to the Frame Rate.

Nathan Schur:

Signing off.

Unknown:

Want you to know it's over.

Unknown:

Well.

Nathan Schur:

Bye.

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About the Podcast

Back to the Frame Rate
Preserving Our Civilization One MOVIE At A Time
Back to the Frame Rate is a movie discussion podcast where filmmakers, actors, and passionate wannabes come together to celebrate the art of cinema. From beloved popcorn flicks of the '80s, '90s and today, to timeless classics and arthouse gems we cover it all. But we’re not just here to talk movies — we’re here to save them!

In a world facing imminent asteroid-induced doom (think Armageddon without the happy ending), we’ve built a fallout shelter for the greatest films of all time. With only enough space for a carefully curated vault of 35mm and 70mm reels, the stakes couldn’t be higher. We comb through the likes of AFI’s 100, Sight & Sound’s Greats, and IMDB’s Top 250 to decide which films are worthy of saving — and which will be purged forever.

Join hosts Nathan Suher, Sam Coale, and Briana (Bee) Butterworth as they passionately debate cinema’s survival, ensuring the future of storytelling one reel at a time. Sadly, the space is tight, just enough for us and our cherished 35mm and 70mm film reels. To friends, family, and old acquaintances left in the cinematic dust, our apologies. But fret not, for we vow to emerge when Earth is safe for repopulation. We've preserved the very soul of civilization, ensuring a future where storytelling thrives. Back to the Frame Rate, saving the world one reel at a time!
Hosted by Nathan Suher, Sam Coale, and Briana (Bee) Butterworth.
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Nathan Suher

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Bee Butterworth

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