Night Moves (1975) / 1970s Hard Boiled Detective Noir #1
Get ready to dive into the gritty world of 1970s Hard-Boiled Detective Noir. This week, we're kicking off our new retrospective series by cracking open Night Moves, the Arthur Penn classic. Follow private investigator Harry Mosby, brought to life by Gene Hackman, as he’s pulled deeper into a dark web of deceit and betrayal. The team unpacks the film’s moody themes, dissecting its moral ambiguities and the haunting, post-Vietnam disillusionment woven through its story.
But that’s not all—it's time for the Tri-Host Wizard Tournament! Nathan, Sam, and Brianna square off in a draft competition, picking Gene Hackman’s best films by decade, ranked by Rotten Tomatoes scores. Expect sharp insights, fiery banter, and plenty of surprises as they celebrate this iconic film that perfectly embodies its era. Don't miss it!
Chapters:
- 11:13 - Main Review of Night Moves (1975)
- 01:02:23 - Final Thoughts, Ratings, and VAULT DECISION
- 01:12:55 - Tri-Host Wizard Tournament (Gene Hackman edition)
- 01:29:46 - Weekly Highlights
- 01:34:24 - Wrap-up and next weeks episode
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100th Episode Spectacular Promo
Transcript
In the dying embers of human existence.
Speaker B:As the asteroid of Behemoth, the sides.
Speaker A:Of Texas hurdles relentlessly toward Earth, the.
Speaker B:World braces for an apocalyptic end.
Speaker B:Deep beneath the bunker, a refuge plunges into the bowels of the earth.
Speaker A:Here the chosen gather their purpose clear to preserve the very soul of our civilization.
Speaker A:The 35 and 70 millimeter prints that.
Speaker B:Encapsulate the magic, the emotion and the dream of generations past.
Speaker B:These masterpieces, each frame a testament to the human spirit, are carefully cataloged and.
Speaker A:Cradled in the cavernous confines of the bunker.
Speaker B:Perhaps there was room for more, for.
Speaker A:Friends and family yearning for salvation.
Speaker A:But sacrifices must be made.
Speaker B:The movie nerds stand united, the keepers of a flame promising a future where the art of storytelling endures, transcending the.
Speaker A:Boundaries of time and space.
Speaker B:God help us all.
Nathan Shore:Welcome to Back to the Frame Rate, part of the Weston Media Podcast Network.
Nathan Shore:Join us as we watch and discuss films on VOD and streaming platforms, deliberating on whether each one is worthy of salvation or destined for destruction in the face of the impending asteroid apocalypse.
Nathan Shore:You can find more episodes of this podcast on backtothrame rate.com where you can subscribe and share our show and find us on our socials at Back to the Frame Rate.
Nathan Shore:I am Nathan Shore and accompanying me are the extraordinary movie mavens Brianna Butterworth and Sam Cole.
Speaker A:Oh, hello.
Speaker B:Always a pleasure.
Nathan Shore:Hello, Sam.
Nathan Shore:Hello, B.
Nathan Shore:Hello.
Nathan Shore:Well, we are back with a brand new retrospective series, November.
Nathan Shore:We're in November.
Speaker A:Woo.
Nathan Shore:I don't know how this happened.
Speaker A:Me neither.
Nathan Shore:But here we are.
Speaker A:Buckle up, buttercup.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, but this is exciting.
Nathan Shore:We did this a year ago with our 80s neo noir retrospective, which was a lot of fun.
Nathan Shore:We are going back a full decade into our 70s hard boiled detective noir.
Nathan Shore:Not just that, but we are really in like the like new Hollywood era as well.
Nathan Shore:Kind of like maybe toward the cusp of the, you know, when it was transitioning into.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, we're in the mid-70s, so.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, this is exciting.
Nathan Shore:I'm really excited.
Speaker A:Big transition time.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, exactly.
Nathan Shore:But how is everybody doing tonight?
Nathan Shore:We're gonna get into the movie in a moment.
Nathan Shore:I just want to check in with everybody.
Nathan Shore:Feeling good.
Nathan Shore:New month.
Speaker A:Feeling good.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm really excited for this, for Noir November.
Speaker A:You guys know I love Noir November almost as much as I love horror movie October.
Nathan Shore:And I'm going to try to keep my focus on this.
Nathan Shore:What I have never really shared on this podcast, it might be new to you guys.
Nathan Shore:I'm a huge baseball fan and my boys are down 3 nothing in the world Series right now.
Nathan Shore:I'm a Yankees fan, and that might be blasphemous living in New England, but I'm just praying that they can get back into the series.
Nathan Shore:I'm kind of watching this on my phone as we do this.
Nathan Shore:I never thought this would be an elimination game tonight, but by the time this episode airs, one way or another, the World Series will be ending.
Nathan Shore:Because this we record several almost a week before episode comes out, but we'll see what happens.
Nathan Shore:But they're down 2 to 1 right now.
Nathan Shore:So in the third inning for all you people keeping track at home, which.
Speaker A:I can't believe I didn't know that you hated New England.
Speaker A:I can't believe I didn't know that you hated Boston.
Speaker A:I can't believe I didn't know you were godless and had terrible taste.
Speaker A:What's that like?
Nathan Shore:But the thing is, I grew up in Connecticut, so I was right on.
Speaker A:The so you grew up in New England?
Nathan Shore:I well, the thing is I grew up right on the line.
Nathan Shore:So I grew up a Yankees fan, but also a Boston Celtics fan and a New England Patriots fan.
Nathan Shore:So I grew up with a lot.
Speaker A:Of championships messing me with this libertarian bullshit.
Speaker A:You just same bad taste in baseball.
Nathan Shore:I just been just reigned with championships my whole life, so I'm complaining.
Nathan Shore:I.
Speaker B:Anyway, Nathan, in order to stop the angry hordes of New Englanders, I'll help rescue you and divert the topic for a moment.
Speaker B:But I'm curious if you've chosen your next director of the five deceased directors that you were looking at for your next viewership.
Speaker B:I was wondering if you'd made a decision on that.
Nathan Shore:No, I haven't.
Nathan Shore:And you're probably asking me one week too early.
Nathan Shore:I was trying to get through.
Nathan Shore:We're recording this still in October and I actually we're a couple days before Halloween, even though this is coming out in November and I'm squeezing in a few more horror films before the end of the month and I close to making a decision.
Nathan Shore:The ones that I mentioned in the last episode was it last week or the week before?
Nathan Shore:Are probably down to those five.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:I'm thinking somebody that doesn't have a very long filmography.
Nathan Shore:By the way, this is kind of interesting.
Nathan Shore:I mentioned this a while ago.
Nathan Shore:I'm actually still in a director's retrospective that I've been taking a really slow walk through.
Nathan Shore: on the podcast, but I'm up to: Nathan Shore:It's been a.
Nathan Shore:I think a month since I've seen the last one of his, and we're starting to get to the really dirty, raunchy movies now, so I got to wait until.
Nathan Shore:Until, you know, later.
Speaker A:You've done beyond, right?
Speaker A:You've done beyond 70 is.
Speaker A:Or 69.
Nathan Shore: I'm up to: Nathan Shore:Beyond the valley of the Dallas, I think, is a movie or two away.
Speaker A:Okay.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's fun.
Speaker A:Yeah, That's a fun filmography.
Nathan Shore:I think Vixen was one of the last couple that I saw.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Nathan Shore:So, yeah, these.
Nathan Shore:These are.
Nathan Shore:They're campy, fun, and, you know, it's something I've.
Nathan Shore:I've thought about checking out at some point, and I'm just taking the opportunity.
Nathan Shore:These are all over the place.
Nathan Shore:They're on Daily motion.
Nathan Shore:They're on YouTube.
Nathan Shore:They're.
Nathan Shore:They're just like all these weird places on the Internet you can find these.
Nathan Shore:These movies.
Speaker A:I love it.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker A:He has some really fun movies.
Speaker A:We'll have to compare notes.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Shore:And actually Fasted Pussycat Kill.
Nathan Shore:Kill is actually one of my favorite films.
Nathan Shore:I think it's a really solid movie, and I think that might have been one that I had to run home, watch right after seeing Driveway Dolls because I was so disappointed.
Speaker A:I just need a better movie.
Speaker A:I need to wash the taste of Driveway dolls out of my mouth.
Speaker A:So, yeah, name a name, a movie this year more disappointing than Driveway Dolls.
Speaker A:It's up there for me.
Nathan Shore:It is.
Nathan Shore:Bike Riders.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Close second.
Speaker A:I'd like to rewatch that one.
Speaker A:Knowing.
Speaker A:Knowing more about it now.
Speaker A:I think I went in with totally different expectations.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:So I probably revisit somebody.
Nathan Shore:Can I share one other story before we get into this?
Nathan Shore:And you share a lot of personal stuff at the top of the show, but this is hysterical and kind of scary.
Nathan Shore:I do drive a Jeep Wrangler I got about a year and a half ago, and about three weeks ago, I learned about a recall on it, and I only found out about this because my dad told me.
Nathan Shore:Like, did you hear about the Jeep Wrangler recall?
Nathan Shore:And I have a hybrid Jeep, and I said I didn't hear anything about it.
Nathan Shore:In fact, I have, like, Jeep app that I get on my phone.
Nathan Shore:I said, I don't even get anything on there either.
Nathan Shore:So I was kind of dismissive about it.
Nathan Shore:But I did call my dealership and I asked about this.
Nathan Shore:Do I have One.
Nathan Shore:And I had to give them my VIN number.
Nathan Shore:And they said, yes, you do have a recall on this and it has to do with the battery cells.
Nathan Shore:They said, please, you cannot charge your battery because if you do, it could catch fire and that could lead to fire.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, and death.
Nathan Shore:I'm like, okay, I won't charge my battery.
Nathan Shore:When is this going to get repaired?
Nathan Shore:Well, we don't have the parts for it.
Nathan Shore:It could be just a tad longer.
Nathan Shore:We'll call you when it's ready, Mike.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:So I'm like, it's been about three weeks, and I'm like.
Nathan Shore:And I was talking to my wife about this.
Nathan Shore:It's been kind of a long time, and I'm not getting the benefit of having a hybrid vehicle.
Nathan Shore:So, Mike, maybe there's some sort of, you know, I doubt they're not going to do anything for me, but.
Nathan Shore:So anyways, I call back the dealership again and I say, I haven't gotten a call or anything about scheduling my recall, maintenance.
Nathan Shore:And, like, what there's.
Nathan Shore:Well, first of all, there's no part to repair.
Nathan Shore:It's a software upgrade.
Nathan Shore:And we don't know when that's going to happen.
Nathan Shore:But call customer service because they have more information about this.
Nathan Shore:And that's the main Jeep customer service number.
Nathan Shore:I call them, I'm on hold for 20 minutes.
Nathan Shore:And I'm driving to work at the time.
Nathan Shore:So I'm on 95 north.
Nathan Shore:Go.
Nathan Shore:Heading up to.
Nathan Shore:Up to work.
Nathan Shore:I finally get somebody from Jeep on the phone and they say, well, it's a software upgrade that we don't know how to do yet, but it's going to happen sometime in quarter four this year.
Nathan Shore:But, sir, are you driving your Jeep right now?
Nathan Shore:I'm like, yes, we highly advise you, do not you stop right now and do not drive a Jeep any longer.
Nathan Shore:Because it's not just recharging your Jeep, plugging it in the battery cells actually applies to it.
Nathan Shore:They could melt down and catch fire at any time.
Nathan Shore:We are going to call you back either today or tomorrow and give you another car.
Nathan Shore:That's how serious this is.
Nathan Shore:So, like, I'm on my way to work right now.
Nathan Shore:I'm like, so I shouldn't be driving it right now?
Nathan Shore:Like, no, sir.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Nathan Shore:Pull over and hitchhike home.
Nathan Shore:Oh, my God, this is so.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, Jeep.
Nathan Shore:What the fuck?
Speaker A:So I drive a 94, a YJ Jeep, and I'm just saying, no problems with the 94.
Nathan Shore:You know, this only applies to 23, 24, like the hybrid models.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Benefit to driving an older car.
Nathan Shore:So, yeah, I'm driving a death trap.
Speaker A:It's still spooky season for Nathan, so.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Happy Halloween, people.
Nathan Shore:A week late.
Nathan Shore:But anyways, that's my life.
Nathan Shore:Wonderful.
Speaker A:That's crazy.
Speaker A:Nathan, I'm glad you're okay.
Nathan Shore:Why don't we get to what people probably tuned in for?
Nathan Shore:Not to hear about my.
Nathan Shore:My, My Jeep woes.
Nathan Shore:But we watched Night Moves this week, and I have a plot synopsi.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Just.
Nathan Shore:Well, one plot.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, one plot.
Nathan Shore:Synopsi.
Speaker A:Plot synopsises.
Nathan Shore:I'm gonna read one of them.
Speaker A:Okay.
Nathan Shore:If I can find it here.
Nathan Shore:I don't always find the plot synopsis.
Nathan Shore:Here it is.
Nathan Shore:Los Angeles private investigator Harry Mosby is hired by a client to find her runaway teenage daughter.
Nathan Shore:Mosby tracks down the daughter, only to stumble upon something much more intriguing and sinister.
Nathan Shore:Dun, dun, dun.
Nathan Shore:I have a little clip.
Speaker A:Really sums it up.
Nathan Shore: trailer from night moves from: Nathan Shore:I think Harry would like me to leave.
Nathan Shore:Well, I don't think that's necessary.
Speaker B:I think Harry thinks it is.
Nathan Shore:Harry thinks if you call him Harry one more time, he's to make you eat that cat.
Nathan Shore:Gene Hackman is Harry Mosby.
Nathan Shore:Hello, Harry in Night Moves.
Nathan Shore:Oh, come on.
Speaker B:Take a swing at me, Harry, the.
Speaker A:Way Sam Spade would.
Nathan Shore:He's a private investigator.
Nathan Shore:My daughter deli.
Nathan Shore:Would you believe Delilah?
Nathan Shore:Well, she's gone.
Nathan Shore:How long gone?
Speaker A:Two weeks.
Nathan Shore:Go find her.
Nathan Shore:Making a living.
Speaker B:Well, let's say 1:25 a day and.
Nathan Shore:Legitimate expenses from other people's lives.
Speaker A:You can get cheaper.
Speaker A:Can I get better?
Nathan Shore:You're higher.
Nathan Shore:Making a mess of his own.
Nathan Shore:God, you're really prime, Owen.
Nathan Shore:You know that.
Nathan Shore:I can't.
Nathan Shore:You screwing another guy and you attack my lifestyle.
Speaker A:Lifestyle has nothing to do with it.
Nathan Shore:Night Moves, it's a mystery.
Nathan Shore:I love the trailer.
Speaker A:I like just the like 70 bop.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Imagine if trailers today just had a narrator still telling us what was going on.
Speaker A:I wish.
Speaker A:I wish that was a good time.
Speaker A:Now we just have.
Speaker A:I went to go see.
Speaker A:I can't remember.
Speaker A:I went to the movies with Tom recently.
Speaker A:I don't remember what we were gonna see, but there were so many trailers that just had a classic rock song in a minor key.
Speaker A:And I was like, I'm going to lose my mind if we don't get over this trend soon.
Speaker A:Like we're gonna look back on this trend the way we look back on the narrator.
Speaker A:I'm so.
Speaker A:It's so tired.
Speaker A:It's so.
Speaker A:It's so tired.
Speaker A:We have to move on as a culture.
Speaker A:It's time for a new kind of trailer.
Nathan Shore:I couldn't agree more.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, God, poor Elton John.
Speaker A:Like his catalog's exhausted.
Nathan Shore:Just.
Nathan Shore:Yep.
Nathan Shore:So Night Moves from Arthur Penn.
Nathan Shore:I, you know, I was.
Nathan Shore:I thought I was more familiar with Arthur Penn.
Nathan Shore:I mean, he's done a couple big movies.
Nathan Shore:You know, Bonnie and Clyde was huge game changer in 67.
Nathan Shore:Little big man I think I've seen, but I don't remember much about it.
Nathan Shore:And the movie that I know, that I have seen and I saw it probably a few times is the Miracle worker from.
Nathan Shore:From 62 I've seen a couple times.
Nathan Shore:But he's a name that just.
Nathan Shore:I know that I recognize name immediately, but I thought he had done more like, recognizable work in this.
Nathan Shore:In this decade, in the 60s and 70s, but I was surprised there weren't.
Nathan Shore:There weren't more films that jumped out at me.
Speaker B:There's a lot of films of his that I have not seen either, including the Missouri Breaks with Jack Nicholson and Marlon Brando.
Speaker B:Looks interesting.
Speaker B:I saw a few clips, but I have not seen the film.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, I haven't seen it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I've seen Alice's Restaurant.
Speaker A:That's one that's come up.
Speaker A:And Sam the Miracle Worker, but that was it before this.
Nathan Shore:Nope.
Nathan Shore:You haven't seen Bonnie and Clyde.
Speaker A:Oh, I've.
Speaker A:No, I have.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, I've seen the big ones.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I also want to see.
Speaker B:I believe it's called the Chase Looked Interesting.
Nathan Shore:Is the Chase the same remake that was done in the 90s?
Nathan Shore:Is that with Charlie Sheen or am I thinking something else?
Speaker B:I think there was that comedy with Charlie sheen in the 90s.
Speaker B:I think that just might be a.
Speaker B:Same title, like a complete coincidence.
Speaker B:But I don't think the two films have anything to do with each other.
Speaker B:They might, but I think the chase by Arthur Penn is a western bank robbery type situation.
Speaker B:Not entirely sure.
Nathan Shore:All right, Other notable people involved in this screen.
Nathan Shore:The screenwriter was Alan Sharp.
Nathan Shore:I really wasn't too familiar with him.
Nathan Shore:Cinematographer Bruce Surtees and composer.
Nathan Shore:The guy that did the music for this did a lot of work.
Nathan Shore:Clute movie we're gonna be doing next.
Speaker A:Yes.
Nathan Shore:Parallax View, Stepford Wives, Marathon Man.
Nathan Shore:He was really in the 70s paranoia film set.
Nathan Shore:And Jaws, the revenge classic.
Nathan Shore:Exactly.
Speaker A:Classic.
Nathan Shore:Let's just go over the cast here for a moment.
Nathan Shore:Here we got Gene Hackman, Susan Clark.
Nathan Shore:The women in this movie, I think the actresses are, I think, incredible.
Nathan Shore:Susan Clark.
Nathan Shore:Jennifer Warren plays Paula.
Nathan Shore:Janet Ward Arlene Iverson and the supporting cast.
Speaker A:Amazing, amazing.
Nathan Shore:Edward Binns plays Joey Ziegler.
Nathan Shore:John Crawford plays Tom Iverson.
Nathan Shore:Melanie Griffith, I didn't.
Speaker A:Melanie Griffith didn't even recognize her.
Nathan Shore:And a very young James woods that.
Nathan Shore:I just shocked me that he was in this.
Nathan Shore:Played Quentin.
Nathan Shore:I love James woods in this.
Nathan Shore:So, yeah, really, really cool.
Nathan Shore:Jennifer Warren though.
Nathan Shore:I want to go back to Jennifer Warren for one second.
Nathan Shore:Just want to make one point about this.
Nathan Shore:I was trying to figure out where I've seen her in other things.
Nathan Shore:I thought she was fantastic in this.
Nathan Shore:She only made.
Nathan Shore:She make a lot of movies and not many that I think were recognizable.
Nathan Shore:But she was known for launching the alliance of Women Directors which was a nonprofit organization dedicated to increasing the number of women and gender non binary directors working in the tenor entertainment.
Nathan Shore:And there's a whole bunch of information on this.
Nathan Shore:So yeah, it's really cool what she did because she retired from acting I think in the late 80s or early 90s to be produced and launch this nonprofit organization.
Nathan Shore:So that's really cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker A:I didn't know that.
Nathan Shore:Yep.
Nathan Shore:I couldn't find any box office information on this movie at all.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Oh, you're kidding.
Nathan Shore:But what I.
Nathan Shore: ,: Nathan Shore:That is a hell of a week to open because who knows what opened a week later that dominated the rest of the summer.
Speaker B:Some movie about a shark, the name of which I can't recall.
Nathan Shore:I don't know.
Speaker A:I was wondering if that was it.
Nathan Shore:Some guy.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Any other.
Nathan Shore:Any other thoughts?
Nathan Shore:Any other.
Nathan Shore:I know we have.
Nathan Shore:Any other facts or anything that I'm trying to think of?
Speaker B:Just an amusing antic.
Speaker B:At just, you know, Nathan, with your childhood love of Ghostbusters 2.
Speaker B:Every time I saw Harris Ulin in a scene, I kept thinking of his line.
Speaker B:I think he played a judge in the courtroom in Ghostbusters too.
Speaker B:And he was like, oh my God, it's the Scolari brothers.
Speaker B:People that he put away.
Speaker B:So that.
Speaker B:That kept distracting me in scenes that he was generally doing a dramatically good job and night moves.
Nathan Shore:I like him.
Nathan Shore:You know, the.
Nathan Shore:The limp that he has in this movie was real.
Nathan Shore:I read a piece of trivia on this.
Nathan Shore:He really was using a cane.
Nathan Shore:That was not part of his performance.
Nathan Shore:That was really.
Nathan Shore:He was really injured, I guess prior to shooting.
Nathan Shore:And he.
Nathan Shore:And yeah.
Nathan Shore:And Arthur Penn just said use it.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:That's part of your Character.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:I think it's time to get into our deep dive into this film.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A: So it's: Speaker A:It's four years after Gene Hackman starred in the French Connection, which I think broke everyone.
Speaker A:And it's a shockingly amazing time in his career right now.
Speaker A:In the context of Neo Noir, we have the Long Goodbye.
Speaker A:We have Allman's long goodbye.
Speaker A:72, 73, we have Chinatown 74, and then we have Night Move 75.
Nathan Shore:And it's the whole trinity.
Speaker A:I mean, I'll just get off my chest.
Speaker A:You hear about those first two.
Speaker A:Deservedly.
Speaker A:You don't hear about Night Moves and everything.
Speaker A:I really love this movie.
Speaker A:I'll just get that out now.
Speaker A:I thought this movie was very close to impeccable, and it's just so underrepresented in the canon.
Speaker A:But I also just think we're at a.
Speaker A:It's the right place, it's the right time, it's the right director, it's the right star.
Speaker A:Everything is coming together for this movie to work.
Speaker A:And it's sort of this slouching attitude that Hollywood has that it's shrugging off the noir of old and possibly sighing and saying goodbye to this genre.
Speaker A:It's breathing its last breath here.
Speaker A:And I think it's really beautiful.
Nathan Shore:Yes.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, I was.
Nathan Shore:And I don't know if you mean like the noir of the early 70s or if you're talking about, like, classic noir.
Speaker A:Like classic noir.
Speaker A:I think these characters are very much a response.
Speaker A:You know, when I watched this, I thought of the Big Sleep.
Speaker A:It's really on the nose.
Speaker A:But you watch the ending.
Speaker A:I think every Neo noir answers to the Maltese Falcon and a lot of noirs too.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But you see this.
Speaker A:The protagonist response to those characters and how that's turned on its head and how they usurp your expectations for what this character, what his capabilities are, what he cares about, what his direction is, how he's treated by the people in his life and how he treats the people in his life.
Speaker A:This is in the early 70s.
Speaker A:Hollywood is having a response to the generation before it.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It is this long goodbye.
Speaker A:It's this.
Speaker A:It's this exit of the genre.
Speaker A:We don't.
Speaker A:The Neo noirs that we did last year, that.
Speaker A:That wasn't this.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:That was.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Speaker A:That was a new era.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:This is kind of the end of an era.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:I love what you just said.
Nathan Shore:And to piggyback off of that, and I'll circle back to my Other point later on, but there's a line of dialogue that I think encapsulates your point.
Nathan Shore:That is, I think it's Arlene, the woman that Harry visits early on, where he says something like, are you the type of detective who wants to get on a case?
Nathan Shore:Nothing can get you off of it.
Nathan Shore:Bribes, beatings, the allure of a woman's body.
Nathan Shore:And Harry says, that was the old days before we had a union.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Nathan Shore:And not only is he putting, you know, Arlene in her place, this film is telling us that this is not going to be another Chinatown.
Nathan Shore:This is not your father's film noir.
Nathan Shore:You know, he does not operate like classic investigators.
Nathan Shore:He's no Philip Marlowe and definitely knows Sam Spade, which is referenced later on as well.
Nathan Shore:But what's interesting is that Harry, unlike those aforementioned detectives who are classic noir heroes and, you know, they are street smart, you know, Harry lets his personal feelings guide him and he lacks.
Nathan Shore:He kind of lacks the hard boiled edge and becomes gutted by the betrayals, making him vulnerable and ultimately leading to his undoing in this movie.
Nathan Shore:I find him a fascinating character.
Nathan Shore:It's really a character study of him and what and how in his downfall.
Speaker A:I think he's incredibly apathetic and self destructive and I think he is probably not a very good detective.
Nathan Shore:No.
Speaker A:We learn a lot about him early on where his wife is saying, you know, essentially, why are you still doing this?
Speaker A:Why are you in this business?
Speaker A:We get an impression, we're told right away that anything he finds in this investigation is told to him through the relationships that he either builds or destroys.
Speaker A:He is not finding anything out for himself, which was really frustrating for us in Crimson Peak, but is really an incredible character study here in Night Moves, he's really just down this path of destruction and sort of, like you said, letting his emotions guide him from one step to the next until this really tragic ending.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Even finding out about his wife's affair, which happens very early on.
Speaker A:That's an accident.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He didn't really mean to do that.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I was telling.
Nathan Shore:I don't know if Sammy had any comment on that.
Nathan Shore:I want to mention something about that interaction with his wife.
Nathan Shore:And I think it's Marty, but I think Harry is.
Nathan Shore:He's really a manchild in this, which is.
Nathan Shore:I found it to be fascinating.
Speaker A:Sam, what did you think?
Speaker B:I do think he paid the price emotionally for the moment when he chose to go to the movie theater because initially, as he'd referenced earlier, he was planning not to go and in going, he discovered pain that he would not have discovered had he not gone.
Speaker B:So that may have shielded him for a bit, but the delayed pain may have come out worse in a future situation and it may have exploded in his face later on.
Speaker B:So I felt that in a sense it was good that he found out what was going on.
Speaker B:And I think his performance and Susan Clark's performance, he played Harry Mosby, she played Ellen Mosby.
Speaker B:I think they are very realistic people in what seems to be a very realistic marriage.
Speaker B:And I somewhat related to his approach with not going to her and instead going to the person that she was having an affair with.
Speaker B:I thought his pain seemed very realistic and kind of universal in a sense that a lot of men would act that way throughout the ages.
Speaker B:So I, to me that made him more human.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, his relationship, it just in general with, with women.
Nathan Shore:This movie is, is kind of interesting.
Nathan Shore:There's, you know, I was about to say, you know the scene where he confronts his wife in Marty in Marty's apartment.
Nathan Shore:You know, he, Harry, he, he is like the child like.
Nathan Shore:And Marty and his wife or Ellen are almost like the parents.
Nathan Shore:The way he's, he, he acts around them.
Nathan Shore:He sneaks into their apartment like he's like a child like going into the parents bedroom, he turns up the radio, he causes the commotion.
Nathan Shore:And it's like what a child would do to get attention from his parents.
Nathan Shore:And this is how they act around him.
Nathan Shore:And there's another scene early on in the movie where, you know, where he learn, when he does learn his wife is cheating on him, the way he reacts.
Nathan Shore:He's held up in his room upstairs, turns on the TV and he's acting like a whiny kid.
Nathan Shore:And to punctuate the scene, his wife asks him if he wants some hot cocoa.
Nathan Shore:You know, you want some hot cocoa to wipe away the tears.
Nathan Shore:You know, it's.
Nathan Shore:Everyone treats the women treat him like a child, he acts like a child.
Nathan Shore:So it's a really fascinating character study of him.
Nathan Shore:And.
Nathan Shore:But the only time he kind of acts like an adult and treats someone as if they're not his mom is when he has an interaction with the deli character.
Speaker A:But what I like, what I think makes it interesting because there's plenty of examples of, for lack of a better term here, manchild in cinema.
Speaker A:I don't think it totally crosses into that line for the Hackman character because, because the movie doesn't celebrate that.
Speaker A:The movie doesn't, doesn't say that that behavior.
Nathan Shore:No, no.
Speaker A:And he's not rewarded for that behavior.
Speaker A:Like, to the credit of the women.
Nathan Shore:It'S just in part, it's just ingrained him.
Speaker A:I think it's.
Speaker A:I think it's really the apathy.
Speaker A:It's the.
Speaker A:I'm just going to shut everything down and I'm not going to.
Speaker A:You know, the fight scenes in this movie are so intense and incredible.
Speaker A:But to the credit of the writers, the women in this movie do not really let him get away with that, ever.
Speaker A:You know, when he's confronted by his wife, that's an adult conversation.
Speaker A:Like, hey, you turned me, you turned me off.
Speaker A:You turned away, you walked.
Speaker A:What was I supposed to do?
Speaker A:How would you.
Speaker A:Why didn't you handle this better?
Speaker A:The women aren't enabling that behavior.
Speaker A:And that behavior doesn't ever get him to the next step, which I thought was great.
Speaker A:And I think it lends itself to having to expose different parts of his character.
Speaker B:I think his apathy is also an emotional shield.
Speaker B:I don't think he's actually apathetic in the sense that he feels nothing.
Speaker B:I think he uses it to protect himself and protect his vulnerability.
Speaker B:And I think that we see this early on and it's established early in the screenplay what he's like emotionally as a person.
Speaker B:And he thinks emotionally when working on the case.
Speaker B:So whether he's going to Florida or he's going back to Florida, yes, it is partially based on logic and evidence, but it's mostly based on his emotional desire.
Speaker B:I have to find out what's going on.
Speaker B:I can't believe they lied to me.
Speaker B:I have to go find this out now.
Speaker B:And to your point, Nathan, about his childlike behavior, he gets up to the emotional point, but he does not necessarily have a follow through.
Speaker B:So he will go to a situation because he's experiencing the emotion of it, but he has not necessarily thought through what is going to happen, what that implies putting himself in these situations.
Speaker B:And he encounters some very dangerous situations throughout the picture in which he's almost killed several times.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, and I think, because I think you're leading right into kind of what the plot is here and what his drawbacks are as a character is that he doesn't.
Nathan Shore:He's not a good detective and he gets himself weighing over his head.
Nathan Shore:And I think there's a lot of analogies to the game of chess that's in here and of course the title.
Nathan Shore:But he is not seeing the clues right in front of him.
Nathan Shore:And I.
Nathan Shore:After I saw this movie, I have to share the story here because I watched this movie about five days ago, I was utterly confused with a lot of the machinations and a lot of the mechanics of what was going on in this.
Nathan Shore:I watched it a second time a day later and ah, eureka.
Nathan Shore:I really.
Nathan Shore:It really took that second viewing to understand what's going on here and understand that why.
Nathan Shore:Why is.
Nathan Shore:Is Harry a bad detective or am I just an idiot for not understanding how these pieces come together?
Nathan Shore:And like him, I wasn't seeing the clues right in front of me at first.
Nathan Shore:This is not.
Nathan Shore:I think this is a pretty plot, heavy, complicated movie to.
Nathan Shore:You can't watch this.
Nathan Shore:It's not an easy breezy watch.
Nathan Shore:But I love the analogies of the metaphor of the chessboard in this.
Nathan Shore:And I didn't get it right away, but Harry is bouncing back and forth between Los Angeles and Florida.
Nathan Shore:And I think the country, the United States is.
Nathan Shore:Is the chessboard.
Nathan Shore:Number one is how I'm trying to interpret this.
Nathan Shore:And the chess pieces are the crisscrossing across the country like a messy, highly strategic chess game.
Nathan Shore:This film was originally titled Dark Tower Chess reference.
Nathan Shore:Harry is a former football player and I was really thinking to myself, why is that important for this movie?
Nathan Shore:And I still don't really understand why.
Nathan Shore:But also football is often compared to as a chess game as well.
Nathan Shore:That's a thinking it's like the most.
Nathan Shore:The closely related to a chess match of all the sports, professional sports.
Nathan Shore:So I don't know if you guys have put any thought into that.
Nathan Shore:But I love all these chess analogies.
Nathan Shore: ls like some Chess matches in: Speaker B:And also I think onto that point when he makes that reference to the chess match and not seeing the clues right in front of him.
Speaker B:He is in a situation at that very moment in Florida where he's being played, where she's come to his bedroom to divert him from knowing that the other guy is going back out to the crash site where the plane went.
Speaker B:Just one point on the director.
Speaker B:It's really interesting how you said upon the first viewing, Nathan, you found it more confusing.
Speaker B:I don't know if it's Arthur Penn's style.
Speaker B:I wouldn't say this film was easier for me to follow.
Speaker B:But there's something about the focus and the pacing of the movie that even though I did not understand a lot immediately, I felt guided in the sense that I was aware of we're here, we're going here.
Speaker B:Where in a movie like Angel Heart, which I know is a different beast altogether.
Speaker B:Personally, I felt that confusion that you're talking about on Angel Heart, where in that film I got the references, but I felt lost.
Speaker B:This film, every moment I was losing, not focus, but thinking to myself, I'm not quite sure what's going on here.
Speaker B:A line in the script would immediately come to the surface that would explain something to me, as if the screenplay knew where the audience was.
Speaker B:And she would say, oh, well, this is my so and so stepfather.
Speaker B:Or just as I felt as if I was going underwater, there'd be a clarification point, which to me was really enjoyable because I like film noir, but I like having at least a little bit of orientation, where sometimes in some of these films it is so labyrinthian and I get so lost that I actually feel removed.
Speaker B:Whereas this movie, I was always invested because I found the scenes atmospheric and there was mystery happening.
Speaker B:And I just felt as a connectivity to the movie that I don't sometimes in this genre.
Nathan Shore:And I'll just say quickly that I think the only reason why is because I love the mystery.
Nathan Shore:There are so many characters in this movie.
Nathan Shore:There's unusually high amount of characters that I have to keep track of.
Nathan Shore:Probably maybe too many.
Nathan Shore:These.
Nathan Shore:Joey Ziegler, Marty Heller, Marv Elman.
Nathan Shore:Like, I forgot who these names were.
Nathan Shore:And then, like, do I go back and rewind it and remember who these were?
Nathan Shore:Because I forgot.
Nathan Shore:Because they're not huge parts of the movie, but they play critical pieces of this mystery that I was like, I don't remember who was who.
Speaker B:And like, yeah, me too.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Names sometimes go, I.
Speaker B:They don't come to me naturally.
Speaker B:In fact, if this was a modern film and they remade this now, I guarantee you, when Gene Hackman's character said, you're saying so and so did this, it would cut to a flash frame of that character, I'm sure.
Speaker A:Yes, yes, yes.
Nathan Shore:But what were you gonna say?
Speaker A:Yeah, I.
Speaker A:I can.
Speaker A:There are so many characters in this movie, but Sam, I felt the same exact way.
Speaker A:And in a way, this movie feels more character driven than plot driven.
Speaker A:There's a lot of plot machinations and a lot of things happening, but it's only because of who these characters are that we're even going to the next step.
Speaker A:There's no investigation that's really leading to the next point in the plot.
Speaker A:It's just character motivation.
Speaker A:So we have to learn and spend a lot of time with all of These characters, even sort of like the James woods character.
Speaker A:There's so many characters that we spend way more time with than we probably would in a modern movie.
Speaker A:And this movie reminded me of Inherent Vice in that way.
Speaker A:There's a lot happening, but sort of like a dream, it just kind of has to wash over you.
Speaker A:And you're just sort of following this person around and it will sort of.
Speaker A:That will be revealed.
Speaker A:That's the mystery.
Speaker A:You're learning it sort of as Gene Hackman's learning it.
Speaker A:And that underwater feeling was so present for me through this movie.
Speaker A:That feeling of being disoriented, like I felt an inherent vice.
Speaker A:And it was pleasant because it felt very intentional.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I think for me, when I think of this movie, that midsection in Florida where he's just spending time down there and spending time with them and like drinking a little bit and just sort of.
Speaker B:That, to me, seems like the heart and soul and theme of the movie from which the beginning and the end spring out like branches.
Speaker B:That's the.
Speaker B:That's the soul of the film.
Speaker B:I think that's what it's about.
Speaker B:And you think you're having these deep character moments and then you find out later he is being deceived in the very moment that's the heart of the film.
Speaker B:So I thought that was really good.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I thought of you with all the traveling.
Speaker A:I was like.
Speaker B:On a humorous note, this movie just makes me want to go to the Yucatan.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:I just want to go.
Speaker B:I just want to take a boat and go there and, you know, not necessarily do the drug smuggling thing because that would not be good for my career.
Speaker B:The other stuff looks great.
Speaker B:I mean, it would be if I didn't get caught.
Speaker B:But I, you know, I can't.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker A:I don't think I'm.
Speaker B:I don't think you don't smooth enough to not be caught.
Speaker B:No, I think I'd stick out.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:No.
Nathan Shore:There is a little bit about the plot of this.
Nathan Shore:There's so Melanie Griffith in this.
Nathan Shore:I think this is her first acting role, potentially.
Nathan Shore:This was shot.
Nathan Shore:We haven't talked about this yet.
Nathan Shore: This was shot in: Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:They had to hold it because she's 16.
Nathan Shore:There's a couple different stories here.
Nathan Shore:I think though she was 16 years old, there's some graphic nudity in this for a 16 year old.
Nathan Shore:But there's a couple stories here that they shot her nude scenes a year later or a couple years later when she was 17.
Nathan Shore: But you know what this is: Speaker A:Yeah, I don't think, I don't know.
Nathan Shore:What I believe here.
Nathan Shore:But the funny thing is they wait, they wait two years to release this.
Nathan Shore:Because they wanted to release it when she was 18.
Nathan Shore:Like that really matters.
Speaker A:Yeah, like you filmed her when she was 16, but you're releasing it is.
Nathan Shore:It is.
Nathan Shore:It's a little awkward, a little uncomfortable.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:I will say I love that there was no love interest between Gene Hackman and Deli.
Speaker A:That made me feel much better.
Nathan Shore:I feel so bad.
Speaker B:Thank God for that, by the way.
Speaker B:It would have been creepy.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, the Deli character and I mean he is really the only one in this movie that treats her like a 16 year old, like a child because she is, I mean she is just worked over by the men in her life.
Nathan Shore:It is, it is really tragic the relationship she has with her stepfather.
Nathan Shore:Oh my God.
Nathan Shore:And when we find out again, hey, by the way, how many weeks in a row is this?
Nathan Shore:Will we get incest?
Speaker A:4.
Speaker A:This is four weeks in a row.
Speaker A:Do you think there's a problem in Hollywood?
Speaker A:What's going on?
Nathan Shore:There is a line of dialogue.
Nathan Shore:There's a scene where Harry and Tom are around the dock and he is like, I want her out of here.
Nathan Shore:Like I've done some foolish things.
Nathan Shore:I actually captured this audio because this says it all.
Speaker A:Harry, you're a pretty straight guy and I'm gonna tell you, I want that kid to hell out of here.
Speaker A:You see, I, I got pretty foolish with her and I.
Speaker A:You've seen her.
Speaker A:God, there ought to be a law.
Speaker A:There is, there is.
Speaker B:It's so funny because when I was watching the movie and he said there ought to be a law at the same time, genius that there is.
Speaker B:I went there is really loudly to my screen.
Speaker B:Like I touched on the screen.
Speaker B:What the hell man?
Speaker B:You don't know that.
Nathan Shore: But I wonder in, in the, in: Speaker A:It just really underscores what a bad guy this guy is.
Nathan Shore:But here's the thing.
Speaker A:And what a bad person.
Speaker A:The mother, like not just the mom.
Nathan Shore:But what do you guys think about the Paula character?
Nathan Shore:Because she is standing by during this whole thing and yet Harry is kind of infatuated by her as well.
Nathan Shore:And Paul is eh.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:My boyfriend is shooping the 16 year old.
Nathan Shore:You know, so what?
Nathan Shore:Why is hair.
Nathan Shore:But Harry sees this going on.
Nathan Shore:He wants to get her out of there.
Nathan Shore:But yet he is kind of like, I'm in no rush, you know, I feel like this is bad things going on in the Keys.
Nathan Shore:And he sees that Paul is like, ah, no, whatever.
Nathan Shore:And he is still okay with sleeping with Paula.
Nathan Shore:And I was like, I mean, so this is the one character flaw.
Nathan Shore:He has a lot of character flaws, but I was just kind of really taken back by that.
Nathan Shore:He seems to have the moral compass to know that that is wrong.
Nathan Shore:But he is still gonna be like, I'm still gonna sleep with this woman that thinks this is.
Speaker B:My feelings on that.
Speaker B:And I've only seen the movie twice.
Speaker B:Once several years ago and then again last night.
Speaker B:But I don't necessarily think when he was watching the situation unfold in the Florida Keys, I don't necessarily think he thought, this is okay, I'm going to hang around a little bit.
Speaker B:I think he realized that there was dangerous loaded powder kegs all around him and he thought, I better play this slowly because this could explode in my face.
Speaker B:So I don't necessarily think he's a terrible detective.
Speaker B:I think his intuition is really on the money.
Speaker B:I think his emotion gets in the way of his logic.
Speaker B:And when it came to sleeping with Paula, I don't necessarily think he thought it was okay.
Speaker B:I think they had had several drinks and he was lying there and maybe he was feeling isolated and it just kind of happened and he sort of just.
Speaker B:Well, all right, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I agree, Sam.
Speaker A:And I think there's something about this character who likes women who are.
Speaker A:Who are kind of stronger characters, you know, who come on a little strong.
Speaker A:And, you know, we.
Speaker A:And we know all this background about his marital troubles.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So we know that he's feeling really alone.
Speaker A:We know he's feeling really desperate.
Speaker A:He's in a bad place.
Speaker A:And I think he's just looking for a little hope, a little bit of a good time.
Speaker A:And I think he thinks he sees something in Paula that's a little bit.
Speaker A:Maybe I can save her, you know?
Speaker B:Yes, he sees in her.
Speaker B:He sees.
Speaker B:First of all, he thinks her enigmatic comments are kind of interesting when she's talking about.
Speaker B:Even though that's intended as, you see, that she's the sort of a diversion.
Speaker B:I also think because he's mad at Ellen, played by Susan Clark, there's the slightest ego boost of sort of, well, another woman understands me in my vulnerable moment because I'm really upset with my wife and I'm hurt.
Speaker B:So he kind of is like letting.
Speaker B:Letting it play a little bit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:So Paula might be somewhat redeemable.
Nathan Shore:What do you Think of her illegal dolphin aquarium in the backyard.
Speaker A:Obviously, I'm against that.
Speaker A:Obviously.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Speaker A:Cannot abide.
Speaker A:That's some real Florida.
Speaker A:No, if you're listening at home and you're like, wow, that dolphin pen looks like a great idea.
Speaker A:No, it doesn't.
Speaker A:Shut up.
Speaker A:No, it doesn't.
Speaker A:It looks like a bad idea.
Speaker A:Can we go through.
Speaker A:Not to backtrack us too much, but, you know, we're talking so much about the main players here.
Speaker A:Can we go back to the James woods characters and some of these characters that cause him some conflict?
Speaker A:Cause I just.
Speaker A:That's a different side of him that I feel like is a little more instigated.
Speaker A:So when he starts on his investigation, he meets up with this young kid played by James woods, who's giving a great performance despite being one of the worst.
Speaker A:But his performance is pretty good, unfortunately.
Speaker A:But, you know, they're both coming in, I think, desperate for some kind of control.
Speaker A:They just really want.
Speaker A:And Hackman especially just wants to feel some control here.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What do you two think of their interactions?
Speaker B:I think they share more similarities between themselves than they'd like to admit.
Speaker B:And I think that with their interactions, I think.
Speaker B:I mean, from an entertaining point perspective, I found wildly enjoyable when Gene Hackman would lose his cool in this film, when he would blow his top just because he was such an engaging character.
Speaker B:And I didn't necessarily relate to everything about him, but when he comes or when he's talking to James woods and he gets angry with him and he doesn't like James woods answer, and he just pushes him out from underneath the car, I was thinking, well, that's.
Speaker B:That's one way to do it, you know, it's amazing.
Nathan Shore:No, I agree 100%, Sam.
Nathan Shore:And I was telling you offline, be that as much as I agree that James is a terrible human being, I miss what he brings to these roles.
Nathan Shore:Very kinetic and kinetic.
Nathan Shore:And he could snap at any moment.
Nathan Shore:And I think having Gene Hackman at the peak of his powers in James woods is dangerous to have in a scene for too long because something is going to happen.
Speaker A:Two Pieces of Flint.
Nathan Shore:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:And I wonder if there are other films where they've been in together.
Nathan Shore:I feel like something like in the middle 80s, they probably were like a buddy cop movie with both of them.
Nathan Shore:I would love to.
Nathan Shore:Oh, God, I hope that exists.
Speaker A:There's, you know, it's just.
Speaker A:It signals this point in the movie where we start to see Gene really lose his cool before he goes to Florida.
Speaker A:You know, like that confrontation with his wife.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's hard, that he's putting glass in the garbage disposal.
Speaker A:It's not going well.
Speaker A:We see him really worked up before he goes down there, which I just think colors the interactions that he's having, but also might be why he's really not noticing the wool being pulled over his eyes.
Speaker A:And then when Deli's returned, when she goes back home, that fight that happens next to him, for me, was one of the toughest parts of the movie to watch.
Speaker A:When they're in the driveway and that family starts that altercation and he hears it and decides to leave, it just was.
Nathan Shore:It's like he did.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yes.
Nathan Shore:But it's like he just, you know, lit a match and just threw it in kerosene and, like, I'm out, you know, and it's.
Nathan Shore:He doesn't know really understand the ramifications of what he's done.
Speaker A:No, he had good intentions.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But then he.
Speaker A:It forces him to miss another key piece of evidence.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because he gets that.
Speaker A:That note of that voicemail, and he doesn't.
Nathan Shore:He's.
Speaker A:So it's at the end because he's emotional.
Speaker A:But, like, Sam, like you were saying, he just put his guard up.
Speaker A:And I was.
Speaker B:I hear you.
Speaker B:I was really surprised that.
Speaker B:I don't know if that message got cut off on his machine, but the way that was set up, I thought that when he was reviewing the footage of her car crash later that all of a sudden he would remember the message and there would be a scene where he goes back to his house and replays it.
Speaker B:And we didn't get that.
Speaker B:And that was surprising to me because that felt like a plant that.
Speaker B:And it was fine that it wasn't paid off, but I was surprised that it wasn't paid off, because usually in screenplays, when you plant something, you pay it off somewhere.
Nathan Shore:You know, I also thought that when he goes to the screening room with Joey Zygor Zeager and he's watching that footage and they play, like, reel 16, that there was gonna be some major piece of evidence in there that was gonna be like a aha moment.
Nathan Shore:The only thing we get out of that is that we learned that Quentin was on the film set.
Nathan Shore:And.
Nathan Shore:And I don't even know if that really is like a major.
Nathan Shore:Is that a major plot piece of this mystery?
Nathan Shore:Because I feel like he's been involved in this all along.
Nathan Shore:I don't feel like there was a satisfactory moment in that scene where he learned something big.
Nathan Shore:I mean, we don't I don't think so.
Nathan Shore:I don't think so.
Speaker B:I don't think so.
Speaker B:I thought it was supposed to be and I was looking for it, but it didn't.
Speaker B:Nothing quite revealed itself.
Nathan Shore:It was just kind of sad seeing that, that, that, that third reel where you see a little bit more of.
Speaker A:The accident, the action.
Speaker A:I think this is back to it being.
Speaker A:Turning the genre on its head a little bit, you know, like it's, it's not the, what is that, that phrase, like the orgy of evidence that gets thrown around.
Speaker A:Like it's, it's not, it's, it's more real life.
Speaker A:It's 70s, it's post Watergate.
Speaker A:It's gritty.
Speaker A:It's not, you know, it's, it's interesting.
Nathan Shore:But you know what, stop right there for one second.
Nathan Shore:So you mentioned, we haven't mentioned, you know, post, you know, Watergate or even post Vietnam because I think that is huge, definitely a huge thing lingering hanging over this, this movie, you know, prior to this, like in the 60s and you had, you know, your heroes were, you know, Marlon Brando, Cary Grant, you know, Burt Lancaster, Rock Hudson, Tony Curtis, people like that.
Nathan Shore:They were very conventionally handsome and the.
Speaker A:Heroes were no disrespect to Gene Hackman.
Speaker A:How does Helen's movie.
Nathan Shore:Gene Hackman is a disheveled looking person, you know, unpolished appearance.
Nathan Shore:By the way, he is rocking a great mustache.
Nathan Shore:And if we ever do a top five mustaches, we should do this sometime.
Speaker B:I think also the product of its time where it's not necessarily a theme in the movie that's hit over your head, that is, this is Vietnam, Watergate.
Speaker B:I think that that's just an automatic factor in the background going on, which is simply saying these are characters that are struggling.
Speaker B:They're not heroes.
Speaker B:They're not all anti heroes because Gene Hackman is not a bad man.
Speaker B:But they're kind of just struggling their way through life and bumbling and, and.
Nathan Shore:Well, yeah, our country is so disillusioned at this time.
Nathan Shore:So I think it's, I think it's, it's, it's just what our world is feeling right now to create characters in this post Vietnam, post Watergate era.
Nathan Shore:But yeah, you know, characters were mirroring that world that was feeling that looking like that.
Nathan Shore:They were anti heroes, they were rebels and loners.
Nathan Shore:So this is par for the course.
Speaker A:And that's spreading across genres, right?
Speaker B:Spreading across genres.
Speaker B:And in a good way, not necessarily a bad way.
Speaker B:I tend to just my personal choices.
Speaker B:I like movies in general, where you come out of the theater, you feel uplifted and hopeful.
Speaker B:And I'm going to try my best at life and I'm going to attack my career.
Speaker B:And things are.
Speaker B:This was a film where it makes me look inward a little bit.
Speaker B:I went on a little walk after this movie.
Speaker B:I wouldn't say I was depressed, but it was more kind of along the lines of, I'm a good person, but am I no better than Gene Hackman?
Speaker B:His character is very different than me, but it just makes you look inward and you look at the kind of rough edges of your own life and you think this is the kind of movie where you think, are we just all bumbling along and not really doing the best job?
Speaker B:And I don't.
Speaker B:I would not lessen my rating for the film.
Speaker B:But it's that feeling, that feeling of that introspective kind of downer feeling is not necessarily my favorite feeling to feel, but that in no way would shape my judgment because it's a quality movie.
Speaker A:You're dovetailing into the end so perfectly.
Speaker A:Because I think you're right.
Nathan Shore:I've got the end.
Speaker A:Yeah, the end of this movie.
Speaker A:What a bummer.
Speaker A:It's, it's, you know, when he go, when he sort of figures it out and he says, oh, I've got, you know, I've got to get back down to Florida and is confronting everyone down.
Speaker A:I mean, just, I don't know, it was pretty shocking for me.
Speaker A:And the ending happened so much faster than the rest of the movie.
Speaker B:And talk about him thinking emotionally and not thinking it through.
Speaker B:Going into that situation in Florida, when he finally pulled out his gun, I thought to myself, at least you thought it through to at least have a weapon with you like a detective.
Speaker B:Because you are walking into an explosive situation without backup, without telling anyone, what are you doing, man?
Speaker A:Like, jumps on the boat, he's, let's go.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And for it to be revealed to him really in the last 10 minutes.
Speaker A:I mean, just on that boat and watching him understand the other characters motivations for the first time, like, no, it was just this piece of art.
Speaker A:It was just this deal that we had made.
Speaker A:No, it's not drugs.
Speaker A:No, it's not what you found.
Speaker A:I mean, there's some chilling scenes in this movie.
Speaker A:They all happen on the water except for the family fight.
Speaker A:You know, we didn't really talk about the submerged plane and just how creepy and terrifying that is.
Speaker A:But then to revisit what I thought was one of the scariest part, like genuinely Scary parts of the film where the visuals are just so striking and.
Speaker B:No, absolutely.
Speaker B:I also don't.
Speaker B:I did not hate Paula.
Speaker B:I know she was involved in some relationships.
Speaker A:Not at all.
Speaker B:So her death.
Speaker A:She's very charming.
Speaker B:She's very charming.
Speaker B:Her death was traumatic for me because I thought to myself, oh, my God, I'm aware that crime doesn't pay, but Jesus, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, this is a movie where no one's really all good and no one's really all bad, you know?
Speaker A:And, you know, there's just.
Speaker A:There's just a lot of people in this movie kind of doing the best they can.
Speaker A:Paul is one of them, and she's just in with this guy.
Speaker A:But revisiting these visuals and having that be the moment where we learn that Paul has really duped him in a really sinister and malicious way.
Speaker A:And really with mal intent, which is something that Harry Mosby really doesn't have.
Speaker A:He's operating with good intent and a good moral compass.
Speaker A:He's just not always the sharpest when he does it.
Speaker B:I will say, too, when I went on, I checked it on Google at the very, very end because I was not sure if he was bleeding out or dying on the boat.
Speaker B:Gene Hackman I'm talking about.
Speaker B:But according to the Internet, it said, no, he did not die.
Speaker B:I got the impression that he was going to make it and that he's turning the boat around to the harbor.
Nathan Shore:But I think it's shot near Ephemeral.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's ambiguous.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Nathan Shore:But before we get to that very final shot there, I think it needs to, you know, we haven't talked about, you know, the plane as well, is being flown by Joey Ziegler, who is, you know, is the villain.
Nathan Shore:He's kind of painted as, like, the Big Bad, but he really isn't because it's a bit.
Nathan Shore:If you really think about it, it's kind of underwhelming.
Nathan Shore:Also misleading.
Nathan Shore:First of all, well, Joey actually, I didn't even suspect for a little while.
Nathan Shore:And honestly, I don't even know.
Nathan Shore:I don't know how he's piloting that plane in a body cast, but that's not important.
Nathan Shore:But the thing is, what I think is the major takeaway from this, I think this is important.
Nathan Shore:I think we're all saying the same thing here.
Nathan Shore:I think it's important not to lose sight that Joey isn't necessarily the Big Bad here.
Nathan Shore:I'm not sure he's.
Nathan Shore:I don't even know if he Intentionally?
Nathan Shore:Well, I guess he intentionally.
Nathan Shore:I don't know if he intentionally killed Dele either.
Nathan Shore:I'm not.
Nathan Shore:I don't know if that's really even clear.
Nathan Shore:See, it seems very contrived, quite unclean to me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Stage a car accident that he's involved in.
Nathan Shore:But the main takeaway from this type of movie is that evil is everywhere and all people are.
Nathan Shore:It's all about the moral decay and the tax selfishness.
Nathan Shore:And every.
Nathan Shore:Of everyone involved, every character is driven by self.
Nathan Shore:Self interest, deceit, betrayal, creating, you know, creating an environment where every.
Nathan Shore:Where no one is to be trusted.
Nathan Shore:And Zigor may be just part of the problem, but he's just a cog in the wheel of this machine.
Nathan Shore:And he.
Nathan Shore:And Zigor, you know, dies in the end of this.
Nathan Shore:But it doesn't really matter.
Nathan Shore:Harry hasn't solved anything in this.
Nathan Shore:And I think at the end, when you see him potentially dying or we don't really know, he's just circling in a boat.
Nathan Shore:And it's the perfect metaphor for how this movie.
Nathan Shore:For where he's ended up in this movie.
Nathan Shore:He's just circling.
Nathan Shore:Going in circles in the open ocean.
Nathan Shore:Circling the drain nowhere.
Nathan Shore:Circling, circling, drain.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:And the.
Nathan Shore:As I distance myself from this movie thinking about that, I really get goosebumps thinking about that.
Nathan Shore:How smart this movie is.
Nathan Shore:At first it was.
Nathan Shore:It seems such a dissatisfying ending, but it is a profound statement.
Nathan Shore:It really is.
Speaker A:I mean, to bring it back to your.
Speaker A:Your chess and.
Speaker A:And football.
Speaker A:Nobody's winning.
Speaker A:One side is just losing more slowly than the other.
Speaker B:I love that, you know the plane crash when.
Speaker B:When Ziegler crashes his plane into the boat.
Speaker B:I saw that clip several years ago and it was based off that.
Speaker B:That clip that made me get the Blu ray and watch the movie.
Speaker B:Because something about it, I just thought to myself, whoa, what's this film?
Speaker B:This looks interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:And Zebra did.
Nathan Shore:Just accidentally did by accident too.
Nathan Shore:Right.
Nathan Shore:It was just like he just did a dope move, you know, killing himself.
Nathan Shore:Pretty much nothing because he flew one armed.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:I was like, you know, it's just.
Speaker B:I thought he was trying to kill Paula on purpose or that's what I.
Nathan Shore:Well, I think so.
Nathan Shore:I'm talking about deli.
Nathan Shore:I don't even know if the.
Speaker B:Oh, deli.
Speaker B:Right, right, right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Like it's.
Nathan Shore:I think it's unclear.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's.
Speaker A:I mean, there's a lot.
Speaker A:I feel like there's just so much in this movie.
Speaker A:I mean, if you really.
Speaker A:If you're listening to this and you want to really go through the plot and all these things.
Speaker A:I think you'll be wonderfully surprised when you watch this movie for the ways in which things unfold.
Speaker B:I think this really is a good movie.
Speaker B:I think you also have to be in the mood for a film noir and be wanting that type of atmosphere.
Speaker B:Because I ultimately have a very optimistic view of humanity in spite of a cynical side that I have.
Speaker B:I believe in altruism.
Speaker B:I think that we're eventually going to go to space.
Speaker B:I think we're going to solve problems.
Speaker B:I think we're going to be an interplanetary species.
Speaker B:So sometimes these movies of people floundering around in darkness go against the grain of who I am.
Speaker B:But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate it as really high quality cinema.
Speaker A:Mm.
Speaker A:Mm.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:That would make more sense.
Speaker B:By the way, I meant to get this in earlier, but a brief comment about Bruce Surtees DP work.
Speaker B:I thought it was good, but there was no cinematography in this movie that I thought that was anything incredibly spectacular, like some film.
Speaker A:I made a note about that.
Speaker A:I was like, it's really very.
Speaker A:What do you call it?
Speaker A:Like just sort of passive.
Speaker A:It's just sort of document watching what's happening unfold.
Speaker A:But I wouldn't say it's really telling a story.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:It certainly wasn't bad.
Speaker B:It was, it was fine, but it's not drawing a blank.
Speaker B: The Richard Gere: Speaker B:American Gigolo, that's a movie where every single shot is a cinematographer, you know, Masterpiece.
Speaker B:That's a photography movie right there.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I would say for noir, this is not a very stylized movie movie, but it's also very bright.
Speaker A:It's really a daytime.
Speaker B:It's a daytime movie and I didn't necessarily mind that it wasn't stylized.
Speaker B:I just definitely noticed that compared to Angel Heart the other week, that is like Style City.
Speaker A:I had the same thought.
Speaker A:Should we do our ratings?
Nathan Shore:Well, we're going to take a break for a moment.
Nathan Shore:We'll come back and do our ratings.
Speaker A:Pretty heavy.
Nathan Shore:About 400 pounds.
Nathan Shore:Pretty heavy.
Nathan Shore:George Sampson, Granada.
Nathan Shore:Mr.
Nathan Shore: Florida,: Speaker A:You know, Florida.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nathan Shore:They got tough cops here.
Speaker A:Small but tough.
Nathan Shore:We're getting up a football game against the guards.
Nathan Shore:Wondered if maybe you and some of your buddies here would like to join in on the fun with the guards.
Speaker A:Uh huh.
Speaker A:Sure.
Nathan Shore:I'd like that.
Nathan Shore:Sign him up.
Speaker A:I'm way ahead of you.
Nathan Shore:See you around.
Nathan Shore:Look forward to it.
Speaker B:It's not the longest yard, is it?
Nathan Shore:It is the longest yard.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:You got, you got a.
Nathan Shore:Any tie in to our movie this week?
Speaker A:Yeah, Gene Hackman.
Nathan Shore:Not Gene Hackman, no.
Speaker A:Oh, I'm thinking, I'm thinking of a different one.
Nathan Shore:Burt Reynolds.
Speaker A:Are you thinking of amazing mustache Firmer?
Nathan Shore:Well, he doesn't have a mustache in the movie, but that is a great, great tie in, but.
Nathan Shore:Former football player.
Nathan Shore:Thank you to everyone who tuned into our podcast.
Nathan Shore:If you're enjoying it, please hit the subscribe button to get new episodes in your feed every week.
Nathan Shore:We don't have a budget for paid advertising, so we rely on you, our listeners, to help us spread the word.
Nathan Shore:The best way to support us is by sharing our podcast with friends or posting about it on social media.
Nathan Shore:You can find us@backtotheframerate.com and follow us at backtotheframerate on Facebook, Instagram threads, TikTok, YouTube and Twitter.
Nathan Shore:Lastly, we'd be incredibly grateful if you left us a five star review on Apple podcasts or Spotify.
Nathan Shore:We thank you for your support.
Nathan Shore:Okay, it is time for our final thoughts and the verdict on whether Night Moves is going to be saved or purged into the fiery apocalypse.
Nathan Shore:How shall we be?
Nathan Shore:Sam, you haven't gone first in a while.
Nathan Shore:Give us your final thoughts and your rating and your decision on Night Moves.
Speaker B:So my final thoughts on Night Moves are.
Speaker B:I enjoy the movie.
Speaker B:I think it's.
Speaker B:It's a product of its time in a good way.
Speaker B:I don't think it reinvents the wheel in any sense of the word.
Speaker B:I solidly enjoy this film.
Speaker B:It's the type of film that were I flipping through channels and were it to come on television, I would.
Speaker B:The remote would stop and I would watch the rest of it.
Speaker B:I solidly enjoy the movie.
Speaker B:I don't love it, but my lack of love for it has nothing to do with the movie itself.
Speaker B:It's just more of my personal taste.
Speaker B:I think the movie is very good and very well made.
Speaker B:So my final review, I would give it.
Speaker B:I was going to give it a three, but based on this discussion, I'm giving it a three and a half because I.
Speaker B:I feel that the character depth is really good in it.
Speaker B:I personally would not put it into the vault, but I do not feel particularly strongly about that.
Speaker B:So if it made it into the vault, I would feel welcome towards it.
Speaker B:So, good movie all around, solid filmmaking, Great Gene Hackman performance, per usual.
Nathan Shore:Okay, Bea, you or me?
Speaker A:I'll go.
Speaker A:Okay, sure.
Speaker A:I really did love this, if you couldn't tell from my gushing reviews.
Speaker A:And it stayed with me and I couldn't stop thinking about it.
Speaker A:I thought the visuals, not always inventive, not always stylized, but what they decided to show was really stunning and striking.
Speaker A:I think the characters are so fleshed out and really feel lived in and breathed in.
Speaker A:And I think it's such a.
Speaker A:It is a product of its time and it comes at such an interesting time in the context of sort of the pantheon of this genre for me.
Speaker A:This is four and a half and.
Speaker A:And I'm going to watch it again.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, put it in the vault.
Nathan Shore:Cool.
Nathan Shore:So what are your.
Nathan Shore:Funny story.
Nathan Shore:Before I give my review, I always.
Speaker B:So I was driving this Jeep and it exploded.
Nathan Shore:That's.
Nathan Shore:That's next week.
Nathan Shore:I logged this movie into letterbox earlier this morning and know what it's told me?
Nathan Shore:I've seen this movie before.
Speaker A:Whoa.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, it's like.
Nathan Shore: en this before, I saw this in: Nathan Shore:Oh, my God.
Nathan Shore:Not like 20 years ago, because.
Nathan Shore:Or something I like.
Nathan Shore:And then like, how can that be?
Nathan Shore:I recall nothing about this movie.
Nathan Shore:And I know I'm getting old, but this is the second time in the last year I have watched a movie from start to finish and had absolutely no recollection of it.
Speaker A:What was the other movie?
Nathan Shore:Born Into Brothels.
Nathan Shore:The documentary?
Speaker A:Well, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's pretty memorable.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B: Night Moves before in around: Speaker B:I remembered.
Speaker B:I saw it.
Speaker B:I barely remembered the movies except images.
Nathan Shore:Like, you don't understand.
Nathan Shore:It's not like, I know I've seen it.
Nathan Shore:I don't remember it.
Nathan Shore:I'm telling you, if you asked me, like five days ago, have you ever seen Night Moves?
Nathan Shore:No, I've never seen it.
Nathan Shore:I've never heard of it.
Nathan Shore:Yet I watched it, logged a rating for it, which I actually don't remember offhand.
Nathan Shore:And prior to letterboxd, I actually had a manual way of recording these things, like using Google Drive or something like that.
Nathan Shore: ,: Nathan Shore:All right, not that.
Nathan Shore:Not that long ago.
Speaker A:Before the pandemic.
Nathan Shore:In my lifetime.
Nathan Shore:In my lifetime, I watched this and I remembered nothing.
Nathan Shore:You would think that with seven years later, I'd be watching.
Nathan Shore:It's like, oh, I remember the scene.
Nathan Shore:Or that scene.
Speaker A:The plane.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, something.
Nathan Shore:And I remember nothing.
Nathan Shore:So maybe I watched this like half awake or I was editing a podcast at the same time.
Nathan Shore:Who knows?
Speaker B:I mean, not to bring it up.
Speaker B:But there are certain herbal remedies that affect the memory.
Speaker B:I don't know if.
Nathan Shore:Anyway, so I want to say, first of all, Sam, I want to thank you for.
Nathan Shore:I was about to say I want to thank you for introducing me to this movie because.
Nathan Shore:But I can't, because I've seen this before, but I never would have watched this and really paid this close attention to it if you hadn't picked this for this retrospective.
Nathan Shore:So I'm really, really glad I watched this and paid attention to it, apparently, this time, because this was a wild ride, not an easy watch at all.
Nathan Shore:If you're looking for an easy, breezy Sunday afternoon mystery, then I don't recommend.
Speaker A:This so much noir.
Nathan Shore:It's one of the most disenfranchising films I've seen in a long time.
Nathan Shore:But like we've said, it's a product of its era.
Nathan Shore:That being, you know, post Vietnam, post Watergate, when it was just in America's DNA to be skeptical of its institutions and its leaders.
Nathan Shore:There is nobody in this film that I feel is heroic.
Nathan Shore:Everyone in shades of gray or much worse.
Nathan Shore:I've seen a lot of Gene Hackman performances, not all of them, a decent amount of them.
Nathan Shore:And this film showed me a side of him I don't think I've seen before.
Nathan Shore:And I gotta say, this is one of, if not the best pure acting performance I think I've ever seen him do.
Nathan Shore:I.
Nathan Shore:I.
Nathan Shore:I think he's incredible in this movie.
Nathan Shore:And maybe it's because he's balancing the tough guy Persona, but underneath it, there's so much vulnerability to it.
Nathan Shore:And it comes through with his interactions with the female actresses in this movie.
Nathan Shore:The supporting cast, I think, is equally solid.
Nathan Shore:I can't say enough about the great things with Susan Clark, Jennifer Warren and Janet Ward.
Nathan Shore:The characters are pulling the strings.
Nathan Shore:These characters are pulling the strings in the story.
Nathan Shore:And I love that each one of these women kind of represents a different facet of Harry's personality also.
Nathan Shore:And I think, lastly, I think this story, you know, the mystery on paper is good, or I should maybe rephrase and say, I'm guessing the original.
Nathan Shore:This was a novel as well.
Nathan Shore:I don't think we mentioned that, but probably had more detail and some deeper character development, which would have probably held the story together, maybe better.
Nathan Shore:Because in this movie adaptation, there is.
Nathan Shore:I think there's.
Nathan Shore:I still think there's a lot of plot and a lot of characters and minor characters that I don't think two hours was enough to tell this story.
Nathan Shore:If we Talked about if this was done today, this would probably be an eight episode miniseries and yeah, I'd be all over that.
Nathan Shore:What hurts this film, I think a little bit is that it is so goddamn bleak.
Nathan Shore:Also, it is a hard watch and I know this was par for the course in the 70s, but we're just bludgeoned over the head with themes of infidelity and statutory rape and murder, incest, corruption, and the list goes on and on.
Nathan Shore:It's a tough watch, but I 100 recommend it.
Nathan Shore:My rating is 4 stars because it is just an incredibly well made film.
Nathan Shore:I think it's one of the best films of the seventies of this genre.
Nathan Shore:And yeah, I say put it in the vault because I was.
Nathan Shore:I was highly impressed with this.
Nathan Shore:With this movie.
Nathan Shore:Seeing it for a second and third time, apparently.
Speaker A:Yeah, it made it in.
Speaker A:I'm so excited.
Speaker A:I love this.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, so yeah, it is in.
Nathan Shore:Whoo.
Nathan Shore:Fantastic.
Nathan Shore:There you have it.
Nathan Shore:All right, we are going to go to our next segment in our.
Nathan Shore:I'm very curious.
Nathan Shore:We are going to do our try host wizard tournament and I'm going to explain the rules in just a moment.
Speaker B:The Derm set champion is Samuel the Horcrux Connoisseur Colt.
Speaker B:The champion for both battles, Brianna the Bludger Breaker Butterworth.
Speaker B:The Hogwarts champion, Nathan Nasty Nimbus shoes.
Speaker B:That means so much to me.
Speaker B:I've been on a Harry Potter kick recently, so that just brought joy to my heart.
Speaker B:And counteracted the drugs and the Yucatan and crashed planes and dead people.
Nathan Shore:Harry Potter and Magic Sam.
Speaker A:I watched the first three a few weeks ago.
Speaker B:God, I love.
Speaker B:God, I love those movies.
Nathan Shore:Oh, yeah.
Nathan Shore:All right, so I'm going to try to explain the rules here for listeners.
Speaker A:We don't know them either.
Nathan Shore:No.
Nathan Shore:This is surprising.
Nathan Shore:Here's what we're gonna do.
Nathan Shore:And I'm terrible explaining rules.
Nathan Shore:We're gonna.
Nathan Shore:It's basically a Rotten Tomatoes game.
Nathan Shore:And here's what we're gonna do.
Nathan Shore:Each one of us is going to draft five Gene Hackman movies, easy from.
Nathan Shore:But we can only draft movies from a certain decade.
Nathan Shore:So.
Nathan Shore:Yes.
Nathan Shore:No, no.
Nathan Shore:But here's.
Nathan Shore:Here's where it gets interesting.
Nathan Shore:So one of each one of us can only draft the movie movies from one particular decade.
Nathan Shore:So B, you may end up with the 70s, Sam, you may end up with the 80s, I may end up with the 90s.
Nathan Shore:We're gonna find that out in a moment.
Nathan Shore:But we're only gonna.
Nathan Shore:These five movies that we draft.
Nathan Shore:We are.
Nathan Shore:The winner is going to be Determined.
Nathan Shore:We want to draft the movies that are going to have the highest Rotten Tomatoes score.
Speaker A:Easy.
Nathan Shore:We add these five movies up.
Speaker A:Easy.
Speaker A:I'm ready to take my gauntlet.
Nathan Shore:Let's do it.
Nathan Shore:He had highly rated movies in all three of these decades.
Speaker A:Yes.
Nathan Shore:Okay, so we're going to draft five movies.
Nathan Shore:Okay, so here's the thing.
Nathan Shore:We have to determine who is responsible for the 70s in the 80s and the 90s.
Nathan Shore:This is why I asked you guys not to go on Rotten Tomatoes for, to look at Gene Hackman movies this week.
Nathan Shore:I have not looked either, so I'm going in blind as well.
Nathan Shore:So what I would say is pull up a Gene hackman Filmography on IMDb would probably be the best place to do it.
Nathan Shore:Or on Wikipedia might be even better because it shows no ratings for movies that we have no idea is what I would recommend you do.
Nathan Shore:I'll do that, too.
Nathan Shore:And we're gonna, like, randomly pick out who's gonna get what, what decade.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:Is.
Nathan Shore:Are these rules clear?
Speaker A:Yes.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:Gene Hackman films.
Nathan Shore:And I'm in Wikipedia.
Nathan Shore:This is probably the best place to go.
Nathan Shore:All right.
Nathan Shore:70s, 80s, 90s.
Nathan Shore:All right, so we are going to do it this way.
Nathan Shore:We're gonna.
Nathan Shore:We're gonna auction off the 70s is what we're gonna do.
Nathan Shore:It's probably the easiest way to do this.
Nathan Shore:We're gonna do a random number generator to make it fair.
Speaker A:Okay.
Nathan Shore:One to 20.
Nathan Shore:I can always edit this out if I need to.
Nathan Shore:All right, Sam, I am going to pick a number for this right here from one to 20.
Nathan Shore:Thirteen.
Speaker B:Thirteen.
Nathan Shore:B, pick a number.
Nathan Shore:Fourteen.
Nathan Shore:All right, I'll pick one.
Nathan Shore:And the number is 15.
Speaker A:Oh, fuck me.
Nathan Shore:So, B, you have.
Speaker A:I get the 70s.
Nathan Shore:You get the 70s.
Speaker A:Okay.
Nathan Shore:All right.
Speaker A:And we're going to see which decade has the highest Rotten Tomatoes score.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:This might not be a fair game, but it's what we're doing.
Nathan Shore:So for the Sam, it's down to me and Sam.
Nathan Shore:For the 80s and 90s.
Nathan Shore:Sam.
Nathan Shore:Sam.
Nathan Shore:Pick a number between one and 26.
Nathan Shore:Six I'll take, I don't know, 10 it is.
Nathan Shore:Four, you get the 80s.
Speaker A:Lucky.
Speaker B:It's my least favorite one.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Speaker B:I wanted the 90s so badly.
Speaker A:I mean, 90s, Gene Hackman, the Birdcage, the Replacements.
Speaker B:Crimson.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Crimson to Enemy of the State.
Nathan Shore:Well, it is what it is, what it is.
Speaker A:I also feel like 90s is probably when people.
Nathan Shore:Okay, so we're just gonna.
Nathan Shore:We'll do.
Nathan Shore:We'll rotate through this in decade order.
Nathan Shore:B, what is your.
Nathan Shore:What's your first pick for the 70s?
Nathan Shore:Gene Hackman.
Speaker A:The French Connection.
Nathan Shore:All right.
Nathan Shore:Can't go wrong there.
Nathan Shore:Oh, by the way.
Nathan Shore:Oh, do you want to do.
Nathan Shore:This is important.
Nathan Shore:Do you want to do tomato rating or popcorn rating?
Nathan Shore:Tomato, tomato, tomato.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:Did you have a different opinion, Sam?
Nathan Shore:No, no tomato rating.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:Sam, what is your 80s?
Speaker B:Your first 80s.
Speaker A:Mississippi Burning Classic.
Nathan Shore:So 90s.
Nathan Shore:I have to go Unforgiven.
Speaker A:Okay.
Nathan Shore:All right, our first.
Nathan Shore:So first round is done.
Nathan Shore:We have French Connection, Mississippi.
Nathan Shore:We'll look at.
Nathan Shore:We'll add these up after Mississippi Burning.
Nathan Shore:And mine from the 90s is unforgiven.
Nathan Shore:I'm feeling good already.
Nathan Shore:All right, be your second pick.
Speaker A:I have a risky strategic choice already for number two.
Speaker A:Have any.
Speaker A:Have any of you seen.
Speaker A:I never sang for my father?
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker A:It's an incredible performance.
Speaker A:I think everyone who's seen it loves it.
Speaker A:I just don't know how many people have seen it.
Speaker A:But that's not what the game is.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna hope that a proud few have seen it and loved it, because it's phenomenal.
Nathan Shore:And what year did that come out?
Nathan Shore:I see it there.
Nathan Shore:1970.
Nathan Shore:Did it even register in Rotten Tomatoes?
Nathan Shore:That's the other thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, we'll find out.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:You don't want to score zero, though.
Speaker A:Well, I'm playing.
Speaker A:Listen, I'm rolling the dice.
Speaker A:I have faith in this performance because, like, it's great.
Nathan Shore:All right.
Speaker B:Risk is part of the game if you want to sit in that chair.
Speaker B:James T.
Speaker B:Kirk.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Nathan Shore: your number two pick for the: Nathan Shore:Gene Hackman.
Speaker B: The: Nathan Shore:All right, nice.
Nathan Shore:My number two pick for 90s, Gene Hackman, it's gonna be Get Shorty.
Nathan Shore:Well, I'm looking at that.
Nathan Shore:I will.
Nathan Shore:I am gonna do Get Shorty.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Speaker A:Easily influenced, I see.
Nathan Shore:Okay, our number, our third round, B.
Nathan Shore:1970s Gene Hackman.
Nathan Shore:What is your third pick?
Speaker A:Young Frankenstein.
Nathan Shore:Rest in peace, Terry Gar.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You guys know how much I love Mel Brooks.
Nathan Shore: Your third pick,: Nathan Shore:You gotta pick a winner here.
Speaker B:The Night.
Speaker B: The: Speaker B:Hoosiers.
Speaker B:Hosiers, Hoseiers.
Speaker A:Yeah, Hosers.
Speaker A:Hoosiers.
Nathan Shore:That's.
Nathan Shore:That's a good one.
Nathan Shore:That's a good one.
Speaker A:I've never seen it.
Nathan Shore:It's good.
Nathan Shore:It's good.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Gene Hackman did not like being in it, though, apparently.
Speaker B:But.
Nathan Shore:But.
Speaker B:Oh, yelled at the director a Lot.
Speaker B:Yeah, he had a terrible time on that film.
Speaker B:Then he got into it, or so I've heard.
Nathan Shore:But I'm gonna go with.
Nathan Shore:Man, there's a lot of good ones here.
Nathan Shore: ill go with crimson tide from: Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Why not?
Nathan Shore:Probably universally enjoyed by critics.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Okay, we are on to our fourth.
Nathan Shore:Fourth round.
Nathan Shore:B.
Nathan Shore:1970s Gene Hackman.
Nathan Shore:We got.
Nathan Shore:We each have two picks left.
Speaker A:It's a bird, It's a plane.
Speaker A:Superman.
Nathan Shore:You gonna go with Superman 2 just to have them both?
Speaker B:I am.
Speaker A:I don't know if that'll work for you.
Speaker B:It's cheating a little bit because, like, he.
Nathan Shore:Footage.
Speaker B:Footage was reused, but he's still in the movie, so.
Speaker B:Superman 2.
Nathan Shore:Yes.
Nathan Shore:Yes.
Nathan Shore:I am so happy.
Speaker A:Battle of the Superman.
Nathan Shore:It's too bad Superman for the Quest for Peace didn't come out in the 90s.
Nathan Shore:You could have grabbed that, Sam, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, but that would have sunk the.
Speaker B:Not even looking at.
Speaker B:I haven't looked at Rotten Tomatoes, but I know that that movie would is.
Speaker A:I haven't.
Speaker A:I haven't looked either.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I'm just poking around Wikipedia a little bit to make sure.
Speaker A:And these movies.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Trying to see the posters.
Nathan Shore:I think I know what my last two picks are gonna be.
Speaker A:Must be nice.
Nathan Shore:I think I'm gonna go with the Firm.
Speaker A:I've never even heard of that movie.
Nathan Shore:Tom Cruise, John Grisham.
Speaker A:No, I do.
Nathan Shore:No.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, you'd actually like that movie.
Speaker A:Would I?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm putting it on the list.
Speaker A:I'm going to get me a little notepad like you have.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Really good.
Speaker B:Dave Garuson soundtrack, piano music and directed by Sidney Pollock, actually.
Speaker A:Oh, cool.
Nathan Shore:We are down to our last picks.
Nathan Shore:Round five.
Nathan Shore:Bea, what is your final pick?
Nathan Shore:1970s Gene Hackman.
Speaker A:I'm so torn because I just don't know what the tomatometer like.
Speaker A:I just don't know.
Speaker A:But I'm going to go with my heart, my little Neo noir heart right now and go for the conversation.
Speaker A:I don't know, though.
Nathan Shore:You.
Nathan Shore:I don't think you can go wrong with that.
Speaker A:Well, I love it, but I don't know.
Speaker A:Do the tomatoes love it?
Speaker A:Are there enough tomatoes?
Speaker A:Who loved it?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I might not know much about this website.
Nathan Shore:Sam, what have you got for Your final pick?
Nathan Shore:1980s Gene Hackman.
Speaker B: For my final pick,: Speaker B:I've seen that Film.
Speaker B:I enjoy that movie.
Speaker B:Wacky ending, but I enjoy it.
Speaker A:Man.
Speaker A:What a great career Gene Hackman's had.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Like fucking rules.
Nathan Shore:I gotta pick a winner here to.
Speaker A:Because I feel like I know it.
Speaker A:I know it's gotta be.
Nathan Shore:You're gonna win this B.
Nathan Shore:Because the 70s, he ruled.
Speaker A:Yeah, he did.
Nathan Shore:I got a.
Nathan Shore:I didn't realize how.
Speaker A:Like, I grew up on 90s Gene Hackman and then got interested in movies.
Speaker B:So to quote the greatest Gene Hackman line of all time, I had to blow up a building because you made a phone call.
Speaker B:Enemy of the state.
Nathan Shore:I'm gonna go with the birdcage.
Speaker A:Yep, that's the one I thought.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I had to quote another Jean Hackman movie.
Speaker A:No, nobody's winning.
Speaker A:Nobody's winning.
Nathan Shore:All right, here we go.
Nathan Shore:Can we all be responsible for going on to Bron Tomatoes and adding up our scores?
Speaker A:I guess the French Connection is coming in freaking strong, everybody.
Speaker A:That was an excellent start.
Speaker A:We have 96.
Nathan Shore:Okay, well, we'll reveal all of our scores like, one at a time here.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:But I had to say that because.
Nathan Shore:Let's.
Speaker A:So you'll be fine.
Speaker A:Oh, I.
Speaker A:I never blew on one of these.
Nathan Shore:I blew on one of these.
Speaker A:You guys.
Speaker A:I never sang for.
Speaker A:My father has 10 reviews on rotten tomatoes and its tomato meter is 100%.
Nathan Shore:That's awesome.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:I think you won this.
Speaker B:So.
Nathan Shore:Okay, so let's, let's.
Nathan Shore:Let's go in order here.
Nathan Shore:Me, you're.
Nathan Shore:You picked the French Connection with your first film.
Nathan Shore:What was the rotten tomato score on that?
Speaker A:96.
Nathan Shore:96.
Nathan Shore:Strong start.
Nathan Shore:And your next.
Nathan Shore:It will go.
Nathan Shore:We'll go by host order here.
Nathan Shore:I never saying to my father.
Nathan Shore:You said it was a hundred percent.
Speaker A:I'm not even lying.
Speaker A:You can look it up.
Nathan Shore:I.
Nathan Shore:I believe you.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:Young Frankenstein.
Speaker A:Yes, Young Frankenstein Strong at 95.
Nathan Shore:95.
Nathan Shore:Oh, you've got this.
Speaker A:Not surprising.
Speaker A:It's a great movie.
Nathan Shore:Superman.
Speaker A:Superman came in at 93.
Speaker A:93.
Nathan Shore:And the conversation.
Nathan Shore:That's got to be like high 90s.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:93.
Nathan Shore:93.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Okay, Sam, I think we're done.
Nathan Shore:What was Mississippi Burning?
Speaker B:79.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker A:It's a tough watch.
Nathan Shore:How about Reds B?
Nathan Shore:What was your total score, by the way?
Nathan Shore:Sorry?
Speaker A:Oh, I don't know.
Speaker A:I thought.
Speaker A:Okay, I'll tell you in a minute after we all do this.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:Reds was what score, Sam?
Speaker B:Reds was 90.
Nathan Shore:90.
Nathan Shore:All right.
Speaker B:Good score.
Speaker B:Hoosiers.
Nathan Shore:91.
Nathan Shore:91.
Nathan Shore:Superman 2.
Speaker B:83.
Nathan Shore:That's pretty good.
Speaker B:83 and no way out 92.
Nathan Shore:Wow.
Nathan Shore:That guy.
Nathan Shore:So my score is unforgiven.
Nathan Shore:96.
Nathan Shore:Get shorty.
Nathan Shore:89.
Nathan Shore:Crimson tide 89.
Nathan Shore:The firm 76.
Nathan Shore:Lowest score of all of them.
Speaker A:Brutal.
Nathan Shore:Brutal.
Nathan Shore:Sank me in the birdcage.
Nathan Shore:84.
Nathan Shore:My score.
Nathan Shore:434 points.
Speaker B:My total score.
Speaker B:Let me just make.
Speaker B:Hold on.
Speaker B:I'm just going to check the math on this because I'm sure it's.
Speaker B:So you go B.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure.
Speaker A:My total score was 477.
Speaker A:Averaging out to 95.4.
Speaker A:Damn you.
Speaker B:My total score was 435.
Nathan Shore:Beat me by one.
Speaker A:What do I win?
Speaker A:That's pretty good.
Nathan Shore:Doing bragging rights.
Nathan Shore:And you can have my car.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:By the way, our movie tonight, Nightmare had the 84.
Speaker A:I like.
Speaker A:I strategically didn't pick it because I was like, I don't think it's gonna be that high.
Speaker A:It's not for everyone.
Nathan Shore:Higher than I thought it was gonna be.
Nathan Shore: Full Moon and blue water from: Speaker A:Well, now you all know that.
Speaker A:You really need to watch it.
Speaker A:I never sang to my father.
Nathan Shore:Apparently 100%.
Speaker A:According to these 10 people.
Nathan Shore:There's no beating B in this.
Nathan Shore:You are our winner.
Nathan Shore:I wish I had, but this would.
Speaker B:Be the perfect time for that.
Speaker B:John Malkovich audio.
Nathan Shore:Woo.
Nathan Shore:I.
Nathan Shore:Which.
Nathan Shore:Which I don't have queued up.
Speaker A:That's okay.
Nathan Shore:I have nothing.
Speaker A:I think I should get a beast.
Speaker A:Pick just a random movie.
Nathan Shore:You want to squeeze it in sometime?
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Speaker A:Wonderful.
Nathan Shore: Have one in: Speaker A:We'll be watching ants get ready.
Nathan Shore:Yay.
Speaker A:We don't need to watch that for this.
Nathan Shore:Do you want to do highlights or want to wrap it up?
Speaker A:Go watch scary season.
Speaker A:It's not over yet.
Speaker A:Keep watching scary movies.
Speaker A:You got some good slashers out right now.
Nathan Shore:Quickly.
Nathan Shore:You.
Speaker A:I loved it.
Nathan Shore:We Both saw Terrifier 3.
Speaker A:I loved it a lot.
Nathan Shore:You loved it.
Speaker A:You not so much.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:I was okay.
Nathan Shore:I mean I'm not really into the genre that kind of like I did go out and see it because everyone's seeing it and I.
Nathan Shore:Anything.
Nathan Shore:Any 2 million dollar movie that is going to make us do that well.
Nathan Shore:And I think it's just a great story that it's possible that Terrifier 3 is going past Joker 2 in the box domestic.
Speaker A:It's amazing.
Speaker A:I do like grindhouse a lot.
Speaker A:I like grindhouse movies.
Speaker A:I like super gore.
Speaker A:I like all that stuff.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:I just think he's doing really.
Speaker A:Damien Leone doing really fun stuff with the genre.
Nathan Shore:I appreciate the practical effects in it and that they're what he's able to do.
Nathan Shore:But it just comes down that it's.
Nathan Shore:It's not really my jam.
Nathan Shore:But hey, you know, it's cool.
Nathan Shore:I appreciate what it is.
Nathan Shore:But I will say though that after watching Terrifier 3, I came home and I had to put something on to counterbalance all the death and violence.
Nathan Shore:So I popped in my DVD copy of Dumb and Dumber and man, this is a movie that I did not like 30 years ago.
Nathan Shore:By the way, it is celebrating its 30th anniversary in a month.
Nathan Shore:From the Farley brothers and I.
Nathan Shore:This movie has weaved its way into my heart over the last 30 years.
Nathan Shore:I've only seen it probably three times in my life.
Nathan Shore:But this.
Nathan Shore:It is cheap fun.
Nathan Shore:But I really have a good time with it.
Nathan Shore:Is it great soundtrack too?
Nathan Shore:It really does.
Nathan Shore:So I kind of go back now and I've really started to enjoy some of the early Jim Carrey films that I did not like back in the day.
Nathan Shore:Like Cable Guy, Liar Liar.
Nathan Shore:I was really.
Nathan Shore:I probably thought of myself as more of a kind of film go.
Nathan Shore:These are just stupid slapstick comedies.
Nathan Shore:And I love Liar Liar and I do.
Speaker A:I like Liar.
Speaker B:The darkness of Cable Guy.
Speaker B:That he's just literally a creep.
Speaker B:It's some.
Speaker B:It's Ben Stiller amusement for me.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, those are just the two things I'll just mention that I caught up with.
Speaker A:I did a bunch of 80 slashers and a bunch.
Speaker A:Just a bunch of slashers in general in honor of Terrifier and it's been a blast.
Speaker A:Did Prom Night.
Speaker A:I did Friday the 13th part 2.
Speaker A:I did sleepaway Camp.
Speaker A:Just been on a total slasher tear.
Speaker A:It's been really fun.
Speaker B:I had so little time.
Speaker B:I just managed to watch Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix and Half Blood Prince, Deathly Hallows Part 1 and 2 and that's it.
Speaker A:Nice.
Nathan Shore:I think that wraps it up for this week.
Nathan Shore: oiled detective noir with the: Speaker A:I'm excited.
Nathan Shore:I have never seen Bea.
Nathan Shore:You have not seen this?
Nathan Shore:No.
Nathan Shore:Sam, we will see you in a couple weeks.
Nathan Shore:You have a week off.
Speaker B:I'll be back.
Nathan Shore:We may have a guest next week.
Nathan Shore:I am unsure but nonetheless it will be a fun time talking about this film.
Nathan Shore:Looking forward to it.
Nathan Shore:I have a.
Nathan Shore:I think I have a blue old Blu ray of this I might kick in there.
Nathan Shore:Which I think has commentary on it.
Speaker A:Nice.
Nathan Shore:I gotta dig it up.
Nathan Shore:So I'm excited about this.
Nathan Shore:Clue is available.
Nathan Shore:If you wanna stream it on Hoopla, it's on the Criterion channel.
Nathan Shore:Or you could rent it on vod.
Nathan Shore:Okay, that is our show this week.
Nathan Shore:Back to the Frame Rate is part of the Weston Media Podcast Network.
Nathan Shore:Special thanks to Brian Ellsworth for our show opening.
Nathan Shore:On behalf of all of us, we bid you farewell from the fall shelter.
Nathan Shore:Your pres in our underground sanctuary is truly appreciated.
Nathan Shore:While you can't join us, we thank you for tuning in.
Nathan Shore:If you are enjoying the show, please subscribe and leave us a rating review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favorite platform for more episodes at Back to the Frame Rate.
Nathan Shore:Find more episodes of our show@backtotheframerate.com I gotta rewrite this ending sometime and follow us on our social media platforms at Backed to the Frame Rate.
Nathan Shore:Your support brightens our bunker.
Nathan Shore:Until next time, stay with us, keep hope alive and share our show with your friends.
Nathan Shore:This is the end of our transmission.
Nathan Shore:Back to the Frame Rate.
Nathan Shore:Signing off.
Speaker A:Want you to know it's over.
Nathan Shore:Well.
Speaker A:Bye.
