Angel Heart (1987) / Gothic Horror #2
This week, we dive into the 1987 gothic horror and film-noir classic, "Angel Heart," exploring its haunting atmosphere and complex narrative. As we discuss the film's unique blend of noir and horror elements, we reflect on the performances of Mickey Rourke and Robert De Niro, highlighting how their characters drive the story's tension. Our conversation also touches on the film's heavy themes and the controversial aspects of its storytelling, particularly the exposition-heavy ending that left us with mixed feelings. Additionally, we make an exciting announcement about our upcoming 100th episode spectacular, which will feature a live audience, a film screening, and a podcast recording. Join us as we navigate the shadows of "Angel Heart" and share our thoughts on this intriguing entry in our Gothic Horror retrospective.
Our 100th Episode Spectacular, is a LIVE screening and LIVE podcast recording with a studio audience on January 10th, 2025.
Time Stamps
- 02:00 - Joker sequel discussion
- 08:55 - Special Annoucement of our 100th Episode Spectacular
- 14:38 - Main review: Angel Heart (1987)
- 52:17 - Final Thoughts & Vault Decision
- 59:00 - Movie Pairing/Recommendation Shelf
- 01:08:07 - Weekly Highlights
- 01:24:16 - Next week: Crimson Peak (2015)
Nathan's Robert Altman Rankings on Letterboxd - https://boxd.it/zkEYQ/detail
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Mentioned in this episode:
100th Episode Spectacular Promo
Join us IN PERSON for our 100th Episode Spectacular on Friday January 10th, 2025 at the Weston Art & Innovation Center to celebrate this milestone event. We are screening the sci-fi/comedy classic 'Galaxy Quest' followed by a recording of our 100th episode in front of AND WITH a live studio audience. That means we want YOU to be involved in the episode! Bring your thoughts on the film, ask us your burning questions, and challenge us with your best movie trivia. Don’t miss your chance to be part of podcast history—an episode that will be preserved in carbonite for all time! Come celebrate, geek out with us, and make our 100th episode one to remember!
Transcript
In the dying embers of human existence.
Narrator:As the asteroid, a behemoth the sides of Texas, hurdles relentlessly toward earth, the world braces for an apocalyptic end.
Narrator:Deep beneath the bunker, a refuge plunges into the bowels of the earth.
Narrator:Here, the chosen gather their purpose clear to preserve the very soul of our civilization.
Narrator:The 35 and 70 millimeter prints that encapsulate the magic, the emotion, and the dreams of generations past.
Narrator:These masterpieces, each frame a testament to the human spirit, are carefully catalogued and cradled in the cavernous confines of the bunker.
Narrator:Perhaps there was room for more, for friends and family yearning for salvation, but sacrifices must be made.
Narrator:The moving earth stand united, the keepers of a flame, promising a future where the art of storytelling endures, transcending the boundaries of time and space.
Narrator:God help us all.
Nathan Schur:Welcome to back to the framerate part of the Westin Media podcast network.
Nathan Schur:Join us as we watch and discuss films on vod and streaming platforms, deliberating on whether each one is worthy of salvation or destined for destruction in the face of the impending asteroid apocalypse.
Nathan Schur:You can find more episodes of this podcast on backtotheframerate.com, where you can subscribe and share our show and find us on our socials with the handle back to the frame rate.
Nathan Schur:I am Nathan Schur, and accompanying me are the extraordinary movie mavens, Breonna Butterworth and Sam Cole.
Breonna Butterworth:Hello.
Sam Cole:Hello.
Sam Cole:I must say, it is somewhat of a pleasure to be here.
Sam Cole:By the way.
Sam Cole:By the way, Nathan, because you're really good, you have a lot of sound effects and stuff.
Sam Cole:Do you by any chance have the audio of, like, a plane nosediving?
Sam Cole:Because I am, of course, referring to Joker's folletu.
Sam Cole:Second weekend.
Sam Cole:80% drop.
Breonna Butterworth:No buen.
Breonna Butterworth:No buen.
Nathan Schur:Nearly 82% drop.
Sam Cole:I feel bad being mean, but yes, you know what?
Nathan Schur:You've inspired me to add it into post.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:Anyone see it, though?
Breonna Butterworth:Yes, I did.
Nathan Schur:I did.
Nathan Schur:Yes.
Sam Cole:I.
Sam Cole:You know, I.
Sam Cole:I feel a bit shallow, but I was interested in seeing it, but the buzz was so negative, I.
Sam Cole:It actually turned me off, and I was like, I'll wait till then.
Nathan Schur:You're part of the problem, Sam.
Sam Cole:Part of the problem.
Sam Cole:I'm the average.
Sam Cole:I'm the average movie going to play a video game at my house, so I'll do that instead.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, I did go out there.
Nathan Schur:No, it was not good, but I didn't hate it.
Nathan Schur:Hate it.
Nathan Schur:But the problem, I'll just say quickly, is that it is a two hour and 18 minutes movie with 15 minutes of plot.
Nathan Schur:But you know, it's the ultimate f you to, you know, to the first movie.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:But you know what?
Nathan Schur:I have respect for this movie still, though, even though I didn't like it.
Nathan Schur:The fact, again, I feel like I'm reiterating everything I said about megalopolis.
Nathan Schur:I didn't enjoy this movie as nearly as much because I found it and I, this is never a term I use for movie because I think it's lazy.
Nathan Schur:I found this movie very boring and that's a problem.
Nathan Schur:But the fact that Todd Phillips made this clearly with the intent that nobody is going to like this movie, I applaud him because I think that's was the intent all along.
Nathan Schur:And Joaquin Phoenix wanted this to be a musical as well.
Nathan Schur:I don't think he, I think he said, and I might be miss misquoting the whole situation, but he did not want to do this unless it was on his terms.
Nathan Schur:And I think it being a musical was a big reason that he came back for this, because he wanted to do something just completely bonkers.
Breonna Butterworth:Being a musical doesn't bother me.
Breonna Butterworth:I do wish the musical aspect were better.
Breonna Butterworth:I wish it leaned into it more.
Breonna Butterworth:Instead we get a lot of whiny, happy, half heartedly sing spoken songs, which is disappointing.
Sam Cole:I heard it was like half.
Sam Cole:Yeah, like half assed.
Sam Cole:Like it dipped into musical.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, it was just, yeah, it was just kind of that like very realist approach.
Breonna Butterworth:When you have the Joker and Harley Quinn, I think we wanted more fantasy and there's a little bit of that, but the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
Breonna Butterworth:I liked that Todd Phillips was like, no, you guys don't get it.
Breonna Butterworth:The Joker is a bad guy.
Breonna Butterworth:He's kind of a loser.
Breonna Butterworth:I do think he hits you over the head with it, but I'm coming in.
Breonna Butterworth:I didn't like the first one either, so.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, yeah, so I liked the first Joker.
Nathan Schur:I wasn't absolutely gaga.
Nathan Schur:Oh my God, I can't use that.
Nathan Schur:But I wasn't like crazy over the first film.
Nathan Schur:I thought it was a decent movie, but this was, this was just poor execution.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, any, anything.
Nathan Schur:So it's, I was disappointed and I knew that this movie, I don't think this movie deserves a d, Cinemascore.
Nathan Schur:I don't think it's that bad.
Nathan Schur:I think it's kinda of an interesting movie that exists and it's done this way.
Nathan Schur:But I just wish that it could have been, it could have been better if they wanted it to be a better movie.
Sam Cole:I'm glad that NBC portrays the Joker as like as bad or he's not pro Joker, because when I saw it in the first one in the theater and he shot Robert De Niro, like the talk show host, the audience cheered at that moment.
Sam Cole:And I was like, I'm not.
Sam Cole:So I feel uncomfortable that you guys are liking this moment much.
Sam Cole:Like, I was like, I want to get out of this.
Sam Cole:This audience is like, kind of tooled up and I'm like, I want to go back to my car and get away before a riot starts.
Sam Cole:I was kind of nervous.
Breonna Butterworth:I think that, and that's how I came out.
Nathan Schur:This came out during, you know, Trump era America.
Breonna Butterworth:So this is definitely, this is the dangerous incel white man.
Breonna Butterworth:Right.
Breonna Butterworth:I think the idea for me, that would have been a more interesting movie would have been the Joker becoming a cult of personality that inspires the Joker that we know in the DC comic universe.
Nathan Schur:But there's, I think there it, I.
Sam Cole:Don'T want to, I won't spoil it, but I read that, I've read the end, like, I know what happens.
Sam Cole:And I was like, damn it.
Nathan Schur:Well, I don't think it's, it's, it's not that obvious, but I think that the end of this movie is trying to imply to that imply that this may inspire, like, the Heath Ledger Joker.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, but I think it just left it.
Breonna Butterworth:So it didn't, yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:And I think it, it left it open for that in case they want to do something later.
Breonna Butterworth:But it didn't seem to have any real feelings as to whether or not they were going to want to do that.
Nathan Schur:But.
Nathan Schur:Really cool one er, shot at the end of the movie, though, I loved.
Sam Cole:The, the big story is that the terrifier three, another clown movie is like, is the successful clown, which I want to see.
Sam Cole:I haven't seen the first one, but I saw a little instagram clip for it and it looks scary.
Sam Cole:And I was like, I know I'm gonna, I already know I'm gonna like that movie and I haven't seen it.
Sam Cole:It's weird to say that, but I know I'm gonna like it.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, I gotta see it.
Breonna Butterworth:I thought at least Megalopolis was interesting.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:Well, we've got a pretty packed show tonight.
Nathan Schur:We, let me just go over a little bit.
Nathan Schur: we're gonna be discussing the: Nathan Schur:What's really kind of funny is I saw that.
Nathan Schur:I think I'm the only one that has seen this movie before.
Nathan Schur:And I picked this movie as part of this gothic horror retrospective.
Nathan Schur:However, is this really gothic horror?
Nathan Schur:Because I joked on our message thread, this would have been so perfect for last year's eighties neo noir.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:I mean, that's not who he is.
Sam Cole:Not to go all Wikipedia on you, but Wikipedia calls it a neo noir film, and it's hard to disagree with that.
Sam Cole:With darkness.
Sam Cole:Got dark, gothic darkness, blah, blah.
Nathan Schur:It does.
Breonna Butterworth:It's like southern gothic.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:Yes.
Nathan Schur:Still, I'm glad we watched this, but I was like, I remember this being so much more sinister and so much more like.
Nathan Schur:I mean, maybe I watched this at midnight and I was like, really nervous.
Nathan Schur:I was, like, really scared watching this.
Nathan Schur:I don't know.
Nathan Schur:It was a long time ago.
Nathan Schur:Was in my early twenties.
Nathan Schur:Maybe I was a different person then.
Nathan Schur:I don't know.
Nathan Schur:A couple other things.
Nathan Schur:We have a big announcement to make.
Nathan Schur:This is really exciting.
Nathan Schur:If you have been following us on social media or receive our newsletter, you may already know about this, but this is pretty big news.
Nathan Schur:So if you look at our little episode thing you're seeing, this is episode 87.
Nathan Schur:We are 13 episodes away from our 100th episode.
Nathan Schur:Come on, Sam.
Nathan Schur:You're good at the woohoo woo.
Nathan Schur:The king of woos, and you bomb it.
Breonna Butterworth:All right.
Sam Cole:No, I did get that.
Sam Cole:The minor, what's his name?
Sam Cole:John Malkovich in the line of fire.
Nathan Schur:So what we're doing is because you only turn 100 once.
Nathan Schur:We have a special event that we're doing.
Nathan Schur:We're calling it the back to the frame rate 100th episode spectacular.
Nathan Schur:We are taking our podcast to a live audience, and we're going to be doing this by discussing one of the great Sci-Fi comedy classics.
Nathan Schur:Sam, what movie are we watching?
Nathan Schur:This is something you've wanted to, for us to review for ages now, but what are we going to be screening for a live audience?
Sam Cole:My beating heart is a flutter with joy.
Sam Cole: will be reviewing the beloved: Sam Cole:Alan Rickman, Sigourney Weaver, Tim Allen, and many, many, many more.
Sam Cole:I am very, very excited about this movie.
Sam Cole:Psychonic and Sam Rockwell.
Sam Cole:And there's so many.
Sam Cole:I can't even.
Sam Cole:Yeah, it makes me cry.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Sam Cole:So if you can't see this, I'm weeping with joy right now.
Nathan Schur:So this event is a live screening of this movie, and it's also going to be a live recording of our podcast.
Nathan Schur:So how does this work?
Nathan Schur: ,: Nathan Schur:So this is, like, a little under three months from now at the Westin Art and Innovation center.
Nathan Schur:It's at 356 Boston Post Road, western Mass.
Nathan Schur:Don't worry.
Nathan Schur:There will be links in the show notes.
Nathan Schur:There's a lot of marketing on our social media, our newsletter.
Nathan Schur:This will not be the last time you hear about this.
Nathan Schur:Space is limited, though.
Nathan Schur:We can only fit about 49 people in the space.
Nathan Schur:So this is gonna be a very small, intimate venue.
Nathan Schur:But I think that's great for this.
Nathan Schur:This is the first time we've done anything like this.
Nathan Schur:Maybe next time we'll sell out Wembley.
Nathan Schur:Who knows?
Nathan Schur:But for this particular one, we're gonna be screening the movie.
Nathan Schur:It's about a 98 minutes movie, probably 92 minutes, you know, before the credits.
Nathan Schur:And immediately after that, we are going to begin our podcast where the three of us are going to talk about this film.
Nathan Schur:We have a special guest who also just today confirmed that he is 100% joining us, and he's been on the show before.
Nathan Schur:Dan Martin.
Nathan Schur:He is a actor in stand up comic.
Nathan Schur:He was on our show way back on the Guardians of the Galaxy three episode.
Sam Cole:Oh, yeah.
Nathan Schur:A long time ago.
Nathan Schur:And extremely funny guy.
Nathan Schur:And I think he's a great, great guest for this episode.
Nathan Schur:And I think we have a couple other surprises that I am working on.
Nathan Schur:So this will be a lot of fun.
Nathan Schur:But the most important thing in this whole thing is that we want you, the audience, to be part of this recording.
Nathan Schur:So we're asking you, as you watch this movie with us, and we're talking about this, we don't want the three of us to be up on front of the stage just like, hey, what'd you think of this?
Nathan Schur:What'd you think of that?
Nathan Schur:We are really, really asking the audience to be.
Nathan Schur:Come out and be chatty with us, talk to us, ask us questions, give your thoughts on the film.
Nathan Schur:That way, you guys can be part of this 100th episode.
Nathan Schur:So this will be canonized forever.
Nathan Schur:In carbonite, we're calling it.
Nathan Schur:So I cannot be more excited for this event.
Nathan Schur:This is a free event as well.
Nathan Schur:But there will be free snacks and water provided.
Nathan Schur:So, you know, there you go.
Nathan Schur:I couldn't be more excited for this.
Nathan Schur:Check our show notes and our website backtotheframerate.com.
Nathan Schur:there'll be more information about it and our socials.
Nathan Schur:All right, I've talked a lot about that.
Sam Cole:The question is not why you should attend, it's why not?
Sam Cole:Why not?
Sam Cole: Do you want your: Sam Cole:Excellently.
Sam Cole:Because I think you should come and I'll leave it at that.
Sam Cole:And I love myself, and I love the sound of my voice, but I want to hear your voice as well.
Sam Cole:Everyone matters.
Sam Cole:And I love you all.
Sam Cole:And whoopity do.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:And if you just, you know, you only listen to us and you want to, like, see us, our mouths move as well.
Nathan Schur:This is your chance.
Sam Cole:We are very, very attractive people in real life.
Nathan Schur:Let me say we are.
Nathan Schur:We are.
Breonna Butterworth:And humble.
Nathan Schur:And we smell good.
Sam Cole:We do.
Sam Cole:Yes.
Sam Cole:The body wash that I use is, I think it's called Icarus.
Sam Cole:So.
Sam Cole:But it's minus, you know.
Sam Cole:Cause he flew too close to the sun, so.
Sam Cole:Minus the burning smell, but, yeah.
Nathan Schur:Thank you, Sam.
Sam Cole:And you can delete that part.
Nathan Schur:I'm gonna pull up the plot synopsis right now and read that.
Nathan Schur:And then we're gonna get right into a bit of the trailer from Angel Heart.
Nathan Schur: In: Nathan Schur:Angel, Harry.
Nathan Schur:Sorry, Harry.
Nathan Schur:Angel is hired by a mysterious man to find Johnny Favorite, a popular singer who disappeared after world War two.
Nathan Schur:Angel's investigation takes him from New York City to New Orleans, where he discovers that favorite was involved in the black arts and the murders he's investigating are connected.
Unnamed Guest:Do you know what today?
Unnamed Guest:Today is.
Unnamed Guest:Today is Wednesday.
Unnamed Guest:Anything can happen.
Unnamed Guest:Dave.
Unnamed Guest:My interest in Johnny is only in finding out if he's alive or if he's dead.
Unnamed Guest:You want me to check it out?
Sam Cole:Check it out?
Unnamed Guest:Who are you?
Unnamed Guest:I'm just the guy who was paid to snoop around.
Unnamed Guest:I'm gonna ask you again.
Unnamed Guest:Where is he?
Unnamed Guest:I don't know.
Unnamed Guest:Harry angel has been hired to solve.
Nathan Schur:More than a mystery.
Nathan Schur:He's dead, Mister angel.
Unnamed Guest:And if he isn't, he is to me.
Unnamed Guest:Are you afraid?
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, I'm afraid.
Nathan Schur:To find more than a killer.
Nathan Schur:All right, we got a lot to talk about with this film tonight.
Nathan Schur:We.
Nathan Schur:So the one thing I just do want to mention here, because I love to give a little context to this movie, and we're going to talk about a lot of the trivia and the facts about this as we discuss this.
Nathan Schur:But you know what?
Nathan Schur:I want to just mention just a few, three little minor things here.
Nathan Schur:The budget for this I saw here was like 18 million, basically 50 million today, if this was.
Nathan Schur:Came out today, made 17.2 million.
Nathan Schur: ,: Nathan Schur:Box office.
Nathan Schur:The week of this release, number one movie in the box office.
Nathan Schur:I'm going to do the lethal weapon.
Nathan Schur:Lethal weapon, 6.8 million.
Nathan Schur:Number two at the box office was a nightmare in Elm street.
Nathan Schur:Three dream warriors made 6.7 million.
Nathan Schur:Almost tied.
Nathan Schur:This is the top three or really close together was platoon, 6.1 million in its 12th week.
Nathan Schur:Ironically, Mickey Rourke turned down a role in platoon to be in this movie.
Sam Cole:Interesting.
Nathan Schur:I was reading angel heart.
Nathan Schur:This movie that we're reviewing debuted at number four, 3.7 million in its opening week.
Nathan Schur:And finally at number five.
Nathan Schur:Outrageous fortune in its six week of release made 3.3 million.
Nathan Schur:That is the top five.
Nathan Schur:Angel heart.
Nathan Schur:You guys have not seen this before.
Nathan Schur:I want to hear about what we think of this, but this was not what I remembered.
Nathan Schur:So how do we begin this?
Nathan Schur:We're not going to be doing our reviews up top.
Nathan Schur:We're going to get right into the plot here.
Nathan Schur:So this, we haven't done this before.
Nathan Schur:Like this.
Nathan Schur:This, like I said, not the, the horror movie that I thought this was, but great atmosphere, not a horror.
Breonna Butterworth:It's a little supernatural, occulty.
Breonna Butterworth:I think it can blur those lines.
Nathan Schur:Well, what am I my.
Nathan Schur:I'm gonna ask you guys a question here.
Nathan Schur:So were either of you onto the plot of this movie from the get go who Johnny favorite was?
Nathan Schur:Who Harry angel was?
Sam Cole:I hear that.
Sam Cole:I mean, even though I.
Sam Cole:Because I only literally watched it once for the first time last night, even though I was not exactly aware what the exact plot reveal would be.
Sam Cole:Louis Cipher was, like, pretty screamingly loud, but I was aware that I could feel a reveal coming really early on with his flashbacks and his memory things.
Sam Cole:And then when he goes and he visits the doctor with who has the.
Sam Cole:Has the morphine, the drugs in his refrigerator, the whole way that played out, I just.
Sam Cole:I knew that, that clearly, clearly something.
Sam Cole:I.
Sam Cole:I could feel the big reveal coming because it was too.
Sam Cole:It wasn't like it wasn't too overt that it was like that I could predict it perfectly, but there was clearly something going.
Sam Cole:I mean, just the way Robert De Niro was looking at him, it's like he knows something he doesn't.
Breonna Butterworth:Some.
Sam Cole:It's.
Sam Cole:There's.
Sam Cole:I could sense I.
Sam Cole:An oncoming storm.
Breonna Butterworth:I think there's no way to predict it perfectly because the ending of this movie is clinically insane and doesn't actually decide what the plot is and just throws like ten at you and then says, all right, that's all, folks.
Breonna Butterworth:Good night.
Breonna Butterworth:So I think to say that it perfectly foreshadows a twist whether it's interesting or not, sort of discredits just how batshit the end of the movie is.
Breonna Butterworth:But leading up to it, you have this kind of cool, hard boiled detective gumshoe, and he goes on this big adventure down south.
Breonna Butterworth:But yeah, the ending.
Breonna Butterworth:Who could predict all ten of those endings?
Sam Cole:Yeah, there was a lot.
Sam Cole:And I mean, I definitely.
Sam Cole:I could predict hardly any of it.
Sam Cole:I just felt structurally, I could feel that it was leading to this big.
Sam Cole:I sensed a reveal coming.
Sam Cole:Like if the movie is like a water slide and the reveal is a big, big, big pool, it's like I knew we were just going to crash into this water at the end, you know, like it was coming.
Sam Cole:There was a feeling of inevitability to it.
Nathan Schur:Do you think there is any kind of.
Nathan Schur:I found this kind of interesting.
Nathan Schur:The beginning of this movie.
Nathan Schur:Harry's original meeting with Louis Cipher.
Nathan Schur:By the way, I love the atmosphere of every single set piece in this movie.
Nathan Schur:Louis Cipher has apparently has an office.
Breonna Butterworth:Over above a corrupt Baptist church.
Breonna Butterworth:I think Parker's choosing really strong and interesting imagery here.
Breonna Butterworth:I don't think it will always hold up to a modern audience with modern sensibilities.
Breonna Butterworth:I think some of this, frankly, has not aged well.
Breonna Butterworth:And I don't think this movie is above interrogating that.
Breonna Butterworth:But I do think the atmosphere of it is its most redeeming quality.
Breonna Butterworth:And when I was watching this movie, I was having such a great time.
Breonna Butterworth:But I did keep thinking, I don't know if it's good, but I'm having a lot of fun.
Breonna Butterworth:But I don't know if it's good, but I'm really having a good time.
Sam Cole:I hear that.
Sam Cole:I would say the talking about the stuff, the things that have held up well, not necessarily all the visual effect moments, but the production design.
Sam Cole: actually felt like it was the: Sam Cole:Like they sold that on me.
Sam Cole:I didn't feel like I was watching actors that had a couple of rented cars that blocked off a street.
Sam Cole:It felt like the fifties, for real.
Sam Cole:And that technical.
Sam Cole:The technical aspect of it was probably my favorite thing about it.
Breonna Butterworth:I totally agree, Sam.
Breonna Butterworth:I think the sets in this are just dripping with that occult ish, sort of sleazy noir.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:I got so sucked into the vibe of this movie.
Nathan Schur:Ellen Parker did another amazing film right after this, which is in this southern gothic.
Nathan Schur:It's not the same gothic, but Mississippi burning.
Breonna Butterworth:Miss it burning.
Breonna Butterworth:That's a tough watch.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, it is.
Nathan Schur:It is a tough watch.
Nathan Schur:But I think it's a very good.
Breonna Butterworth:I like his.
Breonna Butterworth:I liked fame.
Breonna Butterworth:I like.
Breonna Butterworth:You know, there's a.
Breonna Butterworth:There's a lot of his movies that I like.
Breonna Butterworth:Can we talk about the casting in this?
Breonna Butterworth:So we're introduced to.
Breonna Butterworth:We're introduced to Harry angel.
Breonna Butterworth:No foreshadowing there.
Nathan Schur:And Louis, ever been cooler than in this movie.
Nathan Schur:I've seen them, man.
Breonna Butterworth: ened in Mickey Rourke between: Nathan Schur:Well, I think around the.
Nathan Schur: Around: Nathan Schur:Remember, he's had a boxing career, so he really messed up his face doing that.
Nathan Schur: But around: Nathan Schur:They got botched.
Nathan Schur:That's a part of it.
Nathan Schur:Because if you see him in the late nineties, he's still looking relatively normally.
Nathan Schur:Just.
Nathan Schur:He got a little bit older.
Nathan Schur: when he comes back in around: Nathan Schur:Something happened.
Sam Cole:Zachary.
Breonna Butterworth:This is peak Mickey Rourke and I watched an interview where Parker wanted Nicholson, Jack Nicholson for the role, and I'm so glad that we have Mickey Rourke instead.
Breonna Butterworth:I don't know how you guys feel.
Sam Cole:I know.
Sam Cole:I agree with that because I think Jack Nicholson might have been too creepy or something like that.
Sam Cole:Like, you talk about revealing it too early.
Sam Cole:I think he might have, I feel.
Breonna Butterworth:Might be too in on it.
Sam Cole:Yeah, exactly.
Sam Cole:I felt Mickey Rourke was more like, he played his, like, I'm a guy and like, what's up with this?
Sam Cole:And I'm smoking my cigarette and like, I I just.
Sam Cole:I liked his.
Sam Cole:I thought his acting was very natural.
Nathan Schur:If you go back further, you know, this is based on.
Nathan Schur:On a book, falling angel, fallen Angel by William.
Nathan Schur:I'm not gonna say his name.
Nathan Schur:Right.
Nathan Schur:Horsburg.
Nathan Schur: It came out in: Nathan Schur:Robert Evans at Paramount.
Nathan Schur:And they quickly wanted to have.
Nathan Schur:I think at one time, Dustin Hoffman was connected to play Harry angel, and it didn't happen.
Nathan Schur:But it went through a few for.
Nathan Schur:John Frankenheimer was behind directing this at one time.
Nathan Schur:It went through a couple different.
Nathan Schur:But once Alan Parker was involved, Robert De Niro, I was reading, was his first choice to play the Harry angel character.
Nathan Schur:But Robert De Niro wanted to be the devil, wanted to play the cameo in this.
Sam Cole:I could.
Sam Cole:I can just hear that conversation.
Sam Cole:Like, I can see him wanting to do that.
Sam Cole:Like, I totally get it.
Sam Cole:Like, I mean, because who would not have fun playing the devil in a, like, like, of course.
Sam Cole:Of course he wanted to do that role, you know, year for Robert De.
Nathan Schur:Niro playing the devil in Al Capone in the same year.
Sam Cole:Oh, yeah, he's having a blast.
Sam Cole:He was like three years out from Goodfellas was creeping up in a 54 years.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:That initial meeting between the two or not the initial meeting with there in the diner.
Breonna Butterworth:And there's the hard boiled egg scene.
Breonna Butterworth:I am having such a good time watching Mickey Rourke and Robert De Niro try to out New York each other.
Breonna Butterworth:It is such a good time for me.
Breonna Butterworth:And what is such a creepy scene?
Nathan Schur:What's that quote?
Nathan Schur:I mean, I wrote, I wish I actually.
Sam Cole:Oh, the one with this sludge or something?
Nathan Schur:No, I'm going to actually insert it into the podcast here.
Nathan Schur:But about the egg.
Nathan Schur:And he says, you know, some religions think the egg is a symbol of the soul, and I love that.
Nathan Schur:And then he eats the egg.
Nathan Schur:He devours it and basically eating a soul, which is like, again, hitting us over the head with who he is.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, this movie's not subtle.
Nathan Schur:If you haven't figured out who Lewis is at this point, you're hopeless.
Breonna Butterworth:I love the detail of his nails getting longer every time we see him.
Breonna Butterworth:That's just such, that's just cool.
Breonna Butterworth:Really fun.
Breonna Butterworth:I also read that they wanted Brando as the devil for a while, but.
Nathan Schur: Then: Nathan Schur:But what is Brando doing in the mid eighties?
Sam Cole:I don't know, but I feel like he would almost like chew scenery a little bit and maybe not in the best way at that point.
Breonna Butterworth:I could see it.
Breonna Butterworth:I don't know.
Breonna Butterworth:It would have been interesting, would have been a different movie, that's for sure.
Breonna Butterworth:But yeah, from the very first meeting.
Breonna Butterworth:And it's really fun to see this occulty noir movie that leaves, that gets out of New York and that goes down south.
Breonna Butterworth:I don't think we see too many of our detectives actually hit the road.
Sam Cole:That was nice.
Sam Cole:Yeah, yeah.
Sam Cole:I appreciated that.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Nathan Schur: e after he did the formula in: Nathan Schur:He was gone through the eighties.
Sam Cole:Yeah, he was preparing, eating a lot and preparing for the island with Doctor Moreau.
Nathan Schur:You know, that was quite some time.
Nathan Schur:That was 96.
Nathan Schur: He did the freshman in: Nathan Schur:Actually a really good movie.
Sam Cole:Yeah, he was good.
Sam Cole:That was ex movie was great.
Sam Cole:Yeah, that was.
Breonna Butterworth:I haven't seen the freshman in forever.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:But yeah, I can't imagine him doing anything in the eighties.
Nathan Schur:And because he didn't.
Breonna Butterworth:The other actor charging his phone.
Breonna Butterworth:So.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, the other actor we haven't talked about.
Nathan Schur:I think we have to.
Nathan Schur:Misses Lenny Kravitz.
Breonna Butterworth:Lisa Bonet.
Breonna Butterworth:Yes.
Nathan Schur:Who at the time was a pretty big star on the, on the Cosby show.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:This caused some controversy.
Breonna Butterworth:It did.
Breonna Butterworth:I don't love the way the movie handled some of the stuff with Lisa Bonet.
Breonna Butterworth:By all accounts, she had a great time filming it, so that's awesome.
Breonna Butterworth:And, you know, no issues there.
Breonna Butterworth:Some of this movie just doesn't hold up.
Breonna Butterworth:When it gets to Louisiana and it starts talking about voodoo, I mean, it can get pretty racist, and it gets like, oh, all the evil is from this community.
Breonna Butterworth:It's just.
Breonna Butterworth:It's not.
Breonna Butterworth:And it feels so violent on the surface.
Breonna Butterworth:And I don't think the movie sticks the landing enough to really earn that.
Sam Cole:But I would even say it feels a little hokey.
Sam Cole:You know what I mean?
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Sam Cole:Like, where it's kind of like.
Sam Cole:It's.
Sam Cole:It's, like, showy when they're.
Sam Cole:When they're doing.
Sam Cole:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nathan Schur:I don't know if it was racist, because it feels like it's.
Nathan Schur:It's pretty even.
Nathan Schur:There's people of all races that are involved in this voodoo cult, and I.
Sam Cole:Guess it's also the fifties, too.
Sam Cole:I mean, they're trying to.
Breonna Butterworth:It is the fifties.
Nathan Schur:I actually like that this movie does not shy away from the racism.
Nathan Schur:This is like Jim Crow era deep south.
Breonna Butterworth:That's true.
Nathan Schur:And it is.
Nathan Schur:Putting it right in our face.
Breonna Butterworth:That's true.
Nathan Schur:And it's.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:So.
Breonna Butterworth:How do we feel about the reveal that Lisa Bonet is the daughter?
Nathan Schur:We've gone, old boy.
Nathan Schur:That's what I was thinking.
Breonna Butterworth:I know.
Breonna Butterworth:I was like, I gotta make a list.
Breonna Butterworth:That's like, oops, I fucked my daughter.
Nathan Schur:A letterbox list.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:How long is that?
Sam Cole:That's the best.
Sam Cole:It's the best movie title ever, by the way.
Breonna Butterworth:Oops.
Breonna Butterworth:Didn't mean to.
Nathan Schur:You know.
Nathan Schur:The devil.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:Devil made me do it.
Breonna Butterworth:Devil made me do it.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:That is a.
Breonna Butterworth:That's a jarring, graphically violent scene.
Breonna Butterworth:That is.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:I was crazy.
Nathan Schur:That is crazy.
Nathan Schur:It is one of the most intense.
Nathan Schur:And it's like.
Nathan Schur:It's not just a sex scene.
Nathan Schur:It is.
Nathan Schur:It is.
Nathan Schur:It is something else.
Nathan Schur:And I'm really wrestling with, like, how I feel about it.
Nathan Schur:I mean, so, yeah, there's so much tension in that.
Nathan Schur:I mean, there's, like, the wallpaper is peeling.
Breonna Butterworth:Oh, my gosh.
Nathan Schur:The ceilings is dripping, the blood, the bowl.
Nathan Schur:But it also incorporates all the imagery of things that we've seen earlier in the movie.
Breonna Butterworth:I think it goes on for too long.
Breonna Butterworth:I know that.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:Go ahead.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, I think it goes on for too long.
Breonna Butterworth:And I think the.
Breonna Butterworth:You know, we start seeing Lisa Bonet having a violent reaction to Harry angel being on top of her.
Breonna Butterworth:That doesn't seem like she really enjoyed it.
Nathan Schur:And, oh, he was murdering her.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, well, we know that now.
Sam Cole:I was really uncomfortable.
Sam Cole:Yes, it was well done.
Sam Cole:But I kind of like, just, I was like, oh, God.
Nathan Schur:Well, this is the reason why this movie originally got an x rating, right?
Nathan Schur:And the MPAA had say, you have to and Alan Parker eventually edit out 10 seconds out of the sex scene to get it down to an r rating.
Nathan Schur:I haven't watched it, but apparently it is.
Nathan Schur:You can find this online somewhere.
Nathan Schur:The unedited version with the extra 10 seconds.
Nathan Schur:I don't know what's in it that could be any worse than what we already see.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, I'm just, I think I just get a little uncomfortable with the history of it and how it's sort of like where its places in the annals of history that it's sort of pornographic.
Breonna Butterworth:And it just, the whole thing just makes me a little uncomfortable, especially when we get to the end of the movie and it's so convoluted.
Breonna Butterworth:Like, at this point in the film, we're supposed to kind of be on Harry's side.
Breonna Butterworth:And it just, I don't know.
Breonna Butterworth:So it just, if it stuck the landing more, I think I'd have less of a problem.
Breonna Butterworth:Like, I actually love old boy.
Breonna Butterworth:I think old Boy is a great movie, but I think that's a movie that, that has, that really knows what it's going for.
Breonna Butterworth:And I think at the end of this movie, it's just a little too confused.
Sam Cole:I hear you.
Sam Cole:I really hear you on sticking the landing element because for me, like, I really like the technical stuff.
Sam Cole:And I think the movie sort of depends on the reveal.
Sam Cole:Even though it's convoluted, it makes you appreciate and go back and you're like, oh, let me go watch this a second time and look for it.
Sam Cole:But speaking only for myself, the journey of the character and what and watching the story unfold, I personally felt kind of a distance from it.
Sam Cole:And it had that, those, that sort of, I mean, I like when film noir works.
Sam Cole:It really works.
Sam Cole:This had the trappings of, for me, and he's going to go find this person, but then this person leads him to that person, then he goes down south.
Sam Cole:It was, like, designed to be confusing, where I wouldn't go as far as to call it a gimmick because that's a little too cynical.
Sam Cole:But I just felt the mechanisms.
Sam Cole:I felt like I was being just kind of plotted along.
Sam Cole:And then I really liked the reveal, but, like, the experience of that journey was.
Sam Cole:Was not my favorite.
Sam Cole:Last November, when we saw several film noir movies, I was far more entertained by a lot of those personally.
Breonna Butterworth:That's a great point about feeling the machinations of the plot.
Breonna Butterworth:I liked that part better than I liked the ending.
Breonna Butterworth:But I can totally see what you're saying.
Breonna Butterworth:It feels a little paint by numbers.
Sam Cole:Yeah, yeah.
Sam Cole:I could just feel the pieces.
Sam Cole:Like when he's the doctor, and then he goes and it's kind of edited.
Sam Cole:So you think that the doctor committed suicide in his room, but then he takes the gun.
Sam Cole:It's like, wait a minute, they're doing something here.
Nathan Schur:You know, this was my.
Nathan Schur:My issue with the film as well, because I felt like I was being led, very much dragged along this plot, very obviously, and I loved the atmosphere and the.
Nathan Schur:I thought the performances were really good in this, but it was so contrived.
Nathan Schur:And I felt like I was just being.
Nathan Schur:All right, you're being dragged along from set piece to set piece to set piece.
Nathan Schur:But I was having a really good time.
Breonna Butterworth:Me too.
Breonna Butterworth:Beautiful set pieces.
Nathan Schur:Yes, exactly.
Nathan Schur:Sets.
Nathan Schur:Great, great set piece.
Breonna Butterworth:I really.
Sam Cole:The acting and, like, all that stuff was really helped.
Sam Cole:It helps smooth over the.
Sam Cole:The, like, if.
Sam Cole:If the.
Sam Cole:If the mechanisms was like a bit of a feeling of stale bread.
Sam Cole:All the other aspects of the movie was like, really, really good.
Sam Cole:Like peanut butter and jelly, where you're like, okay, this is gonna be a good sandwich.
Nathan Schur:And there's another element to this.
Nathan Schur:Like we.
Nathan Schur:We can argue a little bit if this is a horror movie, if this is really a film noir.
Nathan Schur:But there is one part of this that really kind of, I think, cinches it for me to give me the heebie jeebies.
Nathan Schur:And that is the soundtrack to this.
Nathan Schur:You know, Trevor Jones wrote the score for this.
Nathan Schur:And the soundtrack has, first of all, some wonderful, like, southern blues and jazz fusion.
Nathan Schur:And it's really funny.
Nathan Schur:The very beginning, you know, it's an eighties movie.
Nathan Schur:Cause we got sexy sax to start off the film.
Nathan Schur:But intertwined with Trevor Jones, you know, brooding, atmospheric score, it has this dreamlike quality that adds a.
Nathan Schur:The horror element to this film, you know, because the imagery in the story itself is very classic noir.
Nathan Schur:But the score gives us this heightened tension and psychological horror vibe throughout the movie.
Nathan Schur:And that combination is what is keeping me kind of like at the edge of my seat.
Nathan Schur:That gives me.
Nathan Schur:Gives me the horror vibes that I'm looking for in this.
Sam Cole:I hear that.
Sam Cole:I gotta get a quick shout out to Trevor Jones too, because I.
Sam Cole:I love his music.
Sam Cole:He composed the.
Sam Cole:The co directed Jim Henson and Frank Oz, the.
Sam Cole:The dark Crystal.
Sam Cole:That soundtrack is one of my favorite soundtracks.
Sam Cole:Like, I've played that in my guy.
Sam Cole:So when I saw his name on this movie, I didn't know that, and I was immediately, like, excited.
Sam Cole:He did.
Sam Cole:He did another.
Sam Cole:He did another great movie.
Sam Cole:He's done a lot, and I can't remember some of them.
Nathan Schur:This guy did Excalibur, time bandits, caliber.
Sam Cole:That's what I meant.
Nathan Schur:It's the dark crystal and labyrinth.
Nathan Schur:All right.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Sam Cole:Incredible.
Nathan Schur:And for my, one of my favorites, dark city, arachnophobia.
Nathan Schur:So this.
Nathan Schur:This guy is a God to me.
Sam Cole:For my two cent Excalibur, in my opinion, is the best arthurian movie out there.
Breonna Butterworth:It's a great one.
Breonna Butterworth:Yes.
Sam Cole:So good.
Breonna Butterworth:We should do a watch, I think.
Breonna Butterworth:Not only the soundtrack, I think there's a lot of things in this that lean horror.
Breonna Butterworth:For me, yes, it's neo noir, but the way it uses this imagery is very horror.
Breonna Butterworth:The flashbacks, the sudden cuts, the boy tap dancing.
Breonna Butterworth:The way it uses these sort of big southern set pieces to feel like haunted houses and very small, claustrophobic close quarters.
Breonna Butterworth:It's edited like a horror movie, but it has the machinations of that gumshoe.
Nathan Schur:Detective noir thing in this, you guys, is not something that's really a big, major mystery.
Nathan Schur:Is the woman in black.
Breonna Butterworth:Oh, I love the woman in black.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:Every time she shows up, my.
Nathan Schur:I get goosebumps.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, we're in the conjuring universe.
Breonna Butterworth:It's almost lynchian.
Breonna Butterworth:These, like, pops of surrealism.
Sam Cole:I think that's honestly the scariest thing for me.
Sam Cole:And I know it's like, I'm talking about, like, the tail end, but when he's, like, at the very, very end that this.
Sam Cole:The elevator descent into hell after the credits, when he's at the bottom and the elevator door opens and it almost looks like a visual effects where he becomes, like, a flat, completely, like, jet black silhouette, blacker than the dark blackness, and he becomes still.
Sam Cole:That actually gave me the actual legitimate creeps because I felt like I had.
Sam Cole:I felt like I was on the threshold of hell, like I was actually going to hell, and I was seeing it down there, and it.
Sam Cole:I don't know, that was pure nightmare fuel for me, like that, really.
Sam Cole:I'm so glad you said, nathan, you left me a note saying, you know, make sure you watch to the end credits.
Sam Cole:Yes, I might.
Sam Cole:I might have missed that, because when I watched it on streaming, it, like.
Sam Cole:Like, it just cuts out of the credits like, give us a reading.
Sam Cole:And I was like, nope, nope.
Sam Cole:I gotta see the credits.
Sam Cole:And I'm so glad I did.
Sam Cole:Cause that was the.
Sam Cole:That was the scariest shot in the whole film.
Nathan Schur:I know.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:Oh, scary.
Breonna Butterworth:We didn't talk enough about Charlotte rampling.
Nathan Schur: harlotte ramping, by the way,: Nathan Schur:What a fox.
Nathan Schur:She was in the eighties.
Breonna Butterworth:Abraham Lincoln.
Nathan Schur:I know.
Breonna Butterworth:Absolutely.
Breonna Butterworth:Absolutely.
Nathan Schur:I forgot she was in this.
Nathan Schur:I forgot she was in this.
Nathan Schur:She was probably around 40 or so when she made this movie.
Nathan Schur:And, like, amazing Charlotte Rampley ever being, like, under, like, 65.
Nathan Schur:And, like, I forgot she existed before then.
Nathan Schur:But, yeah, it was wonderful seeing her.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, yeah, she was great.
Breonna Butterworth:And that's just, you know, sort of what you're talking about, Sam.
Breonna Butterworth:Like, they just.
Breonna Butterworth:She's sort of a means to an end with the plot.
Breonna Butterworth:It feels like even though she's so important a Johnny favorite story, we spend so little time with her, but the time we get is cool.
Breonna Butterworth:Like, it's just that fifties, like, cool.
Nathan Schur:You know, that fifties cool.
Sam Cole:And it's really good.
Sam Cole:And, like, that's where there's those moments like that pop up.
Sam Cole:I just get a sense with it, with the screenwriting.
Sam Cole:It's like they've got this.
Sam Cole:If they had this movie on a, like a whiteboard on the wall, they had the great reveal at the end.
Sam Cole:They got the opening.
Sam Cole:And I just felt, yeah, there were some filler scenes.
Sam Cole:Like, oh, okay, we gotta.
Sam Cole:We can.
Sam Cole:We can fill some.
Sam Cole:Let's go out.
Sam Cole:We're gonna get some beautiful sunset shots.
Sam Cole:Let's get.
Sam Cole:Get a second unit filming the cars.
Sam Cole:Well, I could just feel a little bit of story padding at times, you know?
Sam Cole:But, like, the atmosphere was amazing.
Breonna Butterworth:The couple at the beach, which I thought was so fun, I loved meeting them.
Breonna Butterworth:I have no idea why we did.
Sam Cole:But I was that guy saying that he ate the heads off rats.
Sam Cole:Like, what the hell was that all about?
Breonna Butterworth:Again, it's a little lynchy.
Breonna Butterworth:Like, it just wanted to be a little.
Sam Cole:When I heard that line, I was like, you disgusting bastard.
Nathan Schur:We might.
Nathan Schur:I want to talk just a little bit about that final confrontation with.
Nathan Schur:I forget his name, but I just call him, like, krusemark's dad, you know, Charlotte Rampling's dad.
Nathan Schur:Because there, this is kind of where I really am having a good time with this movie.
Nathan Schur:But first of all, biggest vada gumbo I've ever seen.
Breonna Butterworth:It's like, into it.
Breonna Butterworth:Into it.
Nathan Schur:Here's the thing, and I want to get your take on this as well, but up to this point, all the clues in this movie are revealed to us.
Nathan Schur:I don't know.
Nathan Schur:I want to say in real time, but it's through Harry's detective work, I guess, as you say, his investigation is leading us to them.
Nathan Schur:But all of a sudden, at the end of this movie, they decide to sew everything up together in this gigantic, gigantic exposition dump.
Nathan Schur:And it's a great bonkers scene where Krusemark's dad is telling him all of this and we're putting all the pieces together.
Nathan Schur:But I feel like it's really being unfaithful to the movie also, because it's like, well, we're at the end of the movie.
Nathan Schur:Let's just, like, sew it all together.
Nathan Schur:Here you go.
Nathan Schur:It's a ton of dialogue and information and a lot of the information.
Nathan Schur:I feel like I've already kind of, like, pieced this together at this point and I would have enjoyed it more if this came together more organically.
Sam Cole:Yes.
Nathan Schur:His investigation of a more aha.
Nathan Schur:Moment, you know, show not tell because this movie is not being particularly subtle in concealing its secrets already.
Nathan Schur:So I think this is very weak storytelling.
Nathan Schur:Even though.
Sam Cole:Exactly.
Sam Cole:No, I agree.
Sam Cole:It comes across in the, as an exposition dump, basically.
Sam Cole:And even though, even though it's good, it's important information for the story.
Sam Cole:I'm literally only repeating exactly what you just said.
Sam Cole:But if that, if that had been organically weaved in, that would have improved some earlier scenes where those reveals could have been subtler and weaved in.
Sam Cole:It feels like they could have done another draft on the script, to be quite honest.
Nathan Schur:And that to like going back to Krusemark's house to find the dog tags.
Nathan Schur:We know what he's going to find.
Nathan Schur:I actually didn't need to see it because we already know what he's going to find.
Nathan Schur:It was like, well, we're just wasting two minutes because I rather have had him find it and like, oh, you know, find that moment why we were told it.
Nathan Schur:And then we find, yeah, the ending.
Breonna Butterworth:Is so rushed and it feels rushed compared to this languid, southern hot pace of the rest of the movie, which I like.
Breonna Butterworth:I'm not saying should, I don't know if it's that we should speed up the rest of the movie to make the ending feel like it's, they're just two different paces.
Breonna Butterworth:And I don't know if we just make the ending less convoluted and pick one.
Breonna Butterworth:Either he's possessed or there's Harry angel or that, you know, like, pick a thing and then it matches the rest of the pace of the movie exactly.
Sam Cole:And not to be nitpicky, but I love the elevator descent into hell so much.
Sam Cole:That could have.
Sam Cole:That didn't have to be after the end of the credits.
Sam Cole:They could have had that end and then just go to the credits.
Sam Cole:Like, that was such gold to me.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Sam Cole:People would have left the theater and missed that, you know, like, and then.
Nathan Schur:You have, like, Robert De Niro.
Nathan Schur:Like, so you figured out my plan.
Sam Cole:What do you think of my special appearance in this movie?
Breonna Butterworth:Oh, my gosh.
Breonna Butterworth:He's having the best time.
Sam Cole:He loves it.
Sam Cole:Not only is he screen time, but, like, he loved it.
Sam Cole:I loved it.
Sam Cole:And, you know, and this is.
Sam Cole:I'm being cynical but humorous.
Sam Cole:Like, because he doesn't have a lot of screen time.
Sam Cole:This, like, gig for him.
Sam Cole:He gets to show up.
Sam Cole:He gets to play the devil.
Sam Cole:He's, like, sitting around being creepy at, like, not long hours.
Sam Cole:Like, what a blast.
Sam Cole:Like, what a fun shoot for Robert, you know, man.
Nathan Schur:So, like, basically, if you're gonna reveal, I mean, really, the main problem is the main twist to this movie, I feel like, was foreshadowed early on.
Nathan Schur:We didn't have all the pieces together.
Nathan Schur:But if you're going to reveal your big twist at the start of the film, you need to do two things well, and that is tell a compelling story or.
Nathan Schur:And have an ace up your sleeve and that something surprising, you know, that catches us off guard.
Nathan Schur:And I believe this movie achieves one of these two goals.
Nathan Schur:I think it does tell a really good story, but it has no, like, aha.
Nathan Schur:Like, no last minute.
Nathan Schur:Like, this is the real ending.
Breonna Butterworth:It's not cathartic at all.
Breonna Butterworth:It's just confusing.
Sam Cole:I think they could have.
Sam Cole:I think they could have toned down the foreshadowing at the beginning and just gone a bit more straight up, like, you know, neo noir, and then slowly dipped it in organically because it.
Sam Cole:Because it kind of comes on with a thud at certain points.
Sam Cole:For me.
Breonna Butterworth:His name is Louis Cipher.
Breonna Butterworth:Is he foreign?
Sam Cole:Louis Cipher.
Sam Cole:Oh, you're bad news, you bad news, Mark Wahlberg.
Sam Cole:You better.
Sam Cole:I know.
Sam Cole:I pray that you leave my house, right?
Sam Cole:You're not welcome here.
Sam Cole: When I wake up at: Nathan Schur:You make me want to bring back our Wahlberg segment.
Sam Cole:Oh, I never left.
Sam Cole:I never left.
Sam Cole:I'm always here.
Sam Cole:I support the podcast cast.
Breonna Butterworth:Petition to make Mark Wahlberg Harry angel in the remake.
Breonna Butterworth:Do you hear there was, like, supposedly a remake that was gonna come out.
Breonna Butterworth:There were.
Breonna Butterworth:There were thing a few years ago, they were thinking, I would love to see a remake of this movie.
Nathan Schur:I would.
Sam Cole:You know, I wouldn't mind a remake, but I think the danger would be.
Sam Cole:I don't.
Sam Cole:I would be worried that they would get into this kind of, like, CGI sort of hellscape.
Sam Cole:Like, they might overdo the visuals.
Sam Cole:And I actually kind of like the less is more in camera, like that shadowy elevator shaft, even though that was obviously a real building somewhere.
Sam Cole:I thought that was scarier than, you know, some, like, CGI, like, wormhole tunnel where he's sinking.
Sam Cole:Like, I didn't want it to look like a Marvel movie or something.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
Nathan Schur:Anything else you want to say before we take a break or we feel good?
Breonna Butterworth:I feel good.
Nathan Schur:I want to say one thing before we take a break, because this is one funny, scary thing.
Nathan Schur:Not scary, but something that made me really queasy.
Nathan Schur:And this is kind of amusing to me.
Nathan Schur:The most horrifying, uncomfortable thing in this whole movie, for me, was when Mickey Rourke fell into a giant bin of live crawfish and they're all over him.
Nathan Schur:But that.
Nathan Schur:That.
Nathan Schur:Here's the thing.
Nathan Schur:That man is committed because very few actors would do that.
Nathan Schur:I would not do that for a movie.
Nathan Schur:No.
Breonna Butterworth:Oh, I do.
Breonna Butterworth:I do want to say that.
Breonna Butterworth:I love that.
Breonna Butterworth:We had a little Indiana Jones parallel where he hates chickens, and all I could think of was indian snakes.
Breonna Butterworth:And I was like, oh, just not a snakes guy.
Nathan Schur:That was kind of.
Nathan Schur:But that was so odd.
Nathan Schur:I mean, I know it's trying to tie into, like, the voodoo.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:I mean, there's a lot of.
Nathan Schur:There's a lot of chickens that are getting torn apart and ripped apart.
Breonna Butterworth:Well, an egg is so.
Breonna Butterworth:You know, there's.
Sam Cole:They do.
Sam Cole:He does, like, you know, say he doesn't like.
Sam Cole:Like, they.
Sam Cole:They milk that a lot.
Sam Cole:He's like, I don't like chickens.
Sam Cole:Chickens.
Sam Cole:Chickens.
Sam Cole:And, like, later on, he's like, chickens are weird.
Sam Cole:I hate chickens.
Nathan Schur:And then he's, like, running through a chicken coop, and he's, like, scared by them.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, he's the chicken foot in the bathroom.
Breonna Butterworth:Do you guys have a favorite?
Breonna Butterworth:Death minuse is the gumbo.
Nathan Schur:Oh, the.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, I mean, that's so over the top.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, I think so.
Breonna Butterworth:It was super fun.
Nathan Schur:I don't like to always steal other people's theories from YouTube, but I did read one thing, which is pretty cool.
Nathan Schur:I did watch a video on YouTube, and the theory is.
Nathan Schur:It's not really theory, but there's a connection that Harry, you know, obviously killed all the people.
Nathan Schur:We know this, or Lucifer helped him in this.
Nathan Schur:But if you notice and you watch how this happened, Harry touches the weapon of every single touch of the weapon.
Nathan Schur:No, I'm trying to phrase this right.
Nathan Schur:The weapon that kills everybody in this movie, he touches beforehand.
Breonna Butterworth:Oh, yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:Like he throws the crab in the.
Nathan Schur:Gumbo and he touches the gun that kills Fowler.
Nathan Schur:He touches the blade for Charlotte rampling.
Nathan Schur:Exactly.
Nathan Schur:And there's a steam of him picking it up before him or putting it down.
Nathan Schur:So everything that happens after that is in the conversations are a delusion in his head.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:So that's interesting.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:Although the only one that is doesn't really meet up with that theory is Lisa Benet, potentially.
Breonna Butterworth:I don't.
Nathan Schur:She dies in a very gross way, too, but we'll see it.
Breonna Butterworth:Pretty insane.
Nathan Schur:Okay, let's take a break on that note.
Nathan Schur:So thanks, everybody who is tuned into our podcast, if you like your herring and.
Nathan Schur:Herring.
Nathan Schur:Yes, herring.
Nathan Schur:I thought about fish when I said that.
Nathan Schur:I don't know why.
Sam Cole:Red herring.
Sam Cole:Red herring.
Sam Cole:Sam Cole, if you like what you're herring.
Nathan Schur:You would like.
Nathan Schur:We would like it.
Nathan Schur:Oh, my God.
Nathan Schur:I cannot talk tonight.
Nathan Schur:If you like what you're hearing, the world to us.
Nathan Schur:If you would, please hit that subscribe button.
Nathan Schur:That way you get a brand new episode in your feed each and every week.
Nathan Schur:More importantly, we don't have funds for paid advertising for the show, so we count on the friends of the show to help us.
Nathan Schur:And you can do so by telling the people you know about our podcast.
Nathan Schur:Word of mouth is the most powerful way to spread the word about something you love.
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Nathan Schur:Thank you, everyone, for your continued support.
Unnamed Guest:Are you afraid?
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, I'm afraid.
Unnamed Guest:Holland struck my lawyer immediately to sign.
Unnamed Guest:I'll send you a check for $5,000.
Unnamed Guest:If you don't want the job, I'll engage someone else.
Nathan Schur:5000.
Unnamed Guest:5000.
Unnamed Guest:You must want this johnny pretty bad, huh?
Unnamed Guest:I don't like messy accounts.
Unnamed Guest:You know, some religions think that the egg is the symbol of the soul.
Unnamed Guest:Did you know that?
Unnamed Guest:No, I didn't know that.
Unnamed Guest:Would you like an egg?
Unnamed Guest:No, thank you.
Unnamed Guest:I got a thing about chickens.
Nathan Schur:Okay, it's time to get to our decision on whether angel heart is going to be saved or purged into the fiery apocalypse.
Nathan Schur:How fitting.
Nathan Schur:So we say was gonna go first on here.
Breonna Butterworth:It's you, bud.
Nathan Schur:Me?
Breonna Butterworth:It's all you.
Nathan Schur:Always me.
Nathan Schur:I feel like I go first all the time now.
Nathan Schur:All right, so our final thoughts on this.
Nathan Schur:We're all gonna share our final thoughts.
Nathan Schur:So this is a case where I think we've got a film that, in many ways, it really is a perfect potion of style, atmosphere, music, really, really solid performance from Mickey Rourke.
Nathan Schur:And I think Lisa Binet as well.
Nathan Schur:I think she's really good.
Breonna Butterworth:She's a star in this movie.
Nathan Schur:And it's too bad she didn't get a bigger acting career, I think movie career.
Breonna Butterworth:She's doing so much in this movie.
Nathan Schur:The tone of this movie feels urgent and dangerous from start to finish, and it's dripping with blood and sweat.
Nathan Schur:The score I already talked about in the soundtrack, I think also bring this movie to life, because otherwise, I don't believe this film is nearly as scary as it would be without Trevor Jones atmospheric score.
Nathan Schur:It creates the tension that kept me on the edge of my seat, as we said earlier, you know, I don't think this is.
Nathan Schur:This is really a neo noir with some psychological horror elements more than a gothic horror film, I feel, but it does incorporate some of that atmosphere.
Nathan Schur:I really enjoyed the journey that were taken on the setting of the period being in post World War 219, fifties New York City to New Orleans.
Nathan Schur:In the contrast of those worlds, it feels really lived in of with these locations.
Nathan Schur:However, you know, I think we've talked about.
Nathan Schur:I think this movie could have had the potential of being a truly a masterpiece if only it trusted its audience to be even remotely of average intelligence.
Nathan Schur:Because every single clue, every single part of the big reveal is foreshadowed in the most broad paintbrush.
Nathan Schur:And that's kind of a shame.
Nathan Schur:I had a good time watching this movie for this experience of seeing Mickey Rourke and Lisa Benet give what I think is some stellar performances.
Nathan Schur:And it was a wild ride, but it definitely loses points for some really lazy storytelling in the way that this movie wraps up.
Nathan Schur:I'm giving this movie a 3.5.
Nathan Schur:And as far as putting in our vault, I'm.
Nathan Schur:I'm going to put it in the context of some of our other eighties neo noir that we looked at last year, because I think that's the closest I can compare it to, if I were stacked this up against some of those where I.
Nathan Schur:I think it's kind of in the middle of the pack, which I guess it doesn't really cut it when I.
Nathan Schur:When I know I enjoyed films like Body Heat and American jiggle more than this.
Nathan Schur:So my vote is just slightly.
Nathan Schur:Just not.
Nathan Schur:Doesn't make the cut.
Nathan Schur:So I'm gonna say no.
Nathan Schur:I think this.
Nathan Schur:It lacks a few ingredients.
Nathan Schur:Because of that, there are better neo noirs out there, and there's better gothic horror films.
Nathan Schur:So that is my.
Nathan Schur:That's my review.
Nathan Schur:All right, we are.
Nathan Schur:Sam, your turn.
Sam Cole:My review is.
Sam Cole:Is literally almost verbatim of yours.
Nathan Schur:I'll just cut and paste it then.
Sam Cole:Sam, I will say really briefly, I would give it a very solid episode three.
Sam Cole:I enjoyed it.
Sam Cole:I think that.
Sam Cole:I think you guys maybe were more entertained than I was.
Sam Cole:And even if.
Sam Cole:Even though I was less entertained, I certainly respect this movie.
Sam Cole:I think there's some terrifying imagery.
Sam Cole:I love the descent into hell, and I will always remember it.
Sam Cole:I, too, would not put it into the vault just because, like you were just saying, I've seen better gothic horror films.
Sam Cole:I've seen better neo noir films.
Sam Cole:And I think it's just the way the reveal is kind of ham fisted a little bit in that expository dialogue and the fact that it's not subtly woven into the story.
Sam Cole:This movie is so close.
Sam Cole:It has.
Sam Cole:It's like if there was the tip of a mountain peak that was on a masterpiece level.
Sam Cole:This is, like, on a lower slope that's looking up towards the peak, but it's still on the same mountain.
Sam Cole:But because of the other movies that we've seen in the genre that surround it, it.
Sam Cole:And because also, I am, let's face it, the most generous, like, vault giver ever.
Sam Cole:I have to say no this time, because it's what I organically feel in my soul.
Breonna Butterworth:Wow.
Sam Cole:So I have to swear I gotta be no on the vault.
Nathan Schur:Wow.
Nathan Schur:Sam, drop.
Breonna Butterworth:Well, you guys are crazy.
Breonna Butterworth:Five stars, definitely.
Breonna Butterworth:No, we're all on the same page.
Breonna Butterworth:I did really enjoy watching this, but its faults were so glaring that I can tell if I was not in the right mindset or it wouldn't have hit me in the same way.
Breonna Butterworth:It's really beautiful to look at.
Breonna Butterworth:The performances are so much fun.
Breonna Butterworth:Like I said, I relish watching De Niro and Rourke kind of out New York each other at certain points.
Breonna Butterworth:It's so atmospheric.
Breonna Butterworth:I would definitely watch it again.
Breonna Butterworth:I don't think the shoddy storytelling or reveal are a reason not to revisit this and have fun with the way it chews at the scenery, but I don't think that makes a great movie all the time.
Breonna Butterworth:And this is the, I think, perfect example of just because I like a movie or just because I have a favorite doesn't mean I think it's a very good movie.
Breonna Butterworth:I'm with you, Sam.
Breonna Butterworth:This is a three all the way for me.
Breonna Butterworth:And it's a no for the vault.
Nathan Schur:Well, b, you won't be watching it again.
Breonna Butterworth:Womp, womp.
Sam Cole:We should add the Jeff Goldblum Jurassic park laugh.
Sam Cole:And he goes, ow.
Breonna Butterworth:Owen.
Sam Cole:Oh, my God.
Breonna Butterworth:He does laugh like that.
Breonna Butterworth:That was good.
Sam Cole:Yeah, I think he's like.
Sam Cole:I think he's in the helicopter when they're approaching Jurassic park.
Sam Cole:He gives this laugh that I just love.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:I just learned that my partner has never seen the fly with Jeff Goldblum, so gonna have to.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:I'm excited.
Sam Cole:Oh, wow.
Breonna Butterworth:I'm excited to introduce him.
Sam Cole:Cool.
Breonna Butterworth:Sir.
Unnamed Guest:What?
Breonna Butterworth:Are either one of these any good?
Unnamed Guest:I don't watch movies.
Breonna Butterworth:Well, have you heard anything about either one of them?
Unnamed Guest:I find it's best to stay out of other people's affairs.
Breonna Butterworth:You mean you haven't heard anybody say anything about either one of these?
Breonna Butterworth:Nope.
Breonna Butterworth:Well, what about these two?
Unnamed Guest:Oh, they suck.
Nathan Schur:All right, we are going to transition to our movie pairings section of the show, where we recommend a movie to pair with our featured review this week, angel heart.
Nathan Schur:And I'm gonna go, what could go wrong?
Nathan Schur:What could go wrong?
Nathan Schur:Because I'm looking at what we have here, and I have a little side eye with you guys, but, no, these are good.
Nathan Schur:These are really good movies that are here.
Nathan Schur:So, because I'm gonna go last.
Nathan Schur:Sam, you're gonna go first with your pick this week.
Sam Cole:I say the one that came to mind immediately, it has to be Jacob's ladder.
Sam Cole:And because, one, I think Jacob's ladder is a better film.
Sam Cole:One.
Breonna Butterworth:So much better.
Sam Cole:Like, infinitely better one.
Sam Cole:The reveal to Jacob's ladder when I saw it, was shocking.
Breonna Butterworth:Shocking.
Sam Cole:I was shocked.
Sam Cole:And I think that movie's a masterpiece, and I won't, like, if you haven't seen it, go see it, because I actually don't want to give it away here, but I will say it is one of the heaviest movies have ever seen.
Sam Cole:It is so heavy and so intense and so incredible that I was just, like, stunned like a deer in headlights at the end of that film.
Sam Cole:I.
Sam Cole:That you talk about a reveal.
Sam Cole:That reveal is unbelievable.
Breonna Butterworth:Textbook.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Sam Cole:Just like, wow.
Sam Cole:So I.
Sam Cole:Yes.
Sam Cole:That came to mind immediately because it's just a movie that.
Sam Cole:That.
Sam Cole:That does a similar structural thing, but just, like, nails it, so.
Sam Cole:Yeah, that's what I would say about that.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:I love that film.
Nathan Schur:That's a great pick, Sam.
Sam Cole:And I love Adrian Lynn.
Sam Cole:I mean, he did unfaithful.
Sam Cole:I love that movie.
Breonna Butterworth:Amazing.
Sam Cole:I just.
Sam Cole:Oh, my God.
Breonna Butterworth:Amazing Richard Gere performance.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:And I think it's on Vod right now.
Nathan Schur:You can catch it.
Breonna Butterworth:It is.
Unnamed Guest:If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on to, you'll see devils tearing your life away.
Unnamed Guest:But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels freeing you from the earth.
Unnamed Guest:It's just a matter of how you look at it, that's all.
Unnamed Guest:So don't worry.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Breonna Butterworth:Sam, I think you're so right that that's also my pick.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:I watched Jacob's ladder a couple weeks ago.
Breonna Butterworth:Just by happenstance, I had never seen angel heart, and I just happened to be popping it on.
Breonna Butterworth:It's a perfect movie.
Breonna Butterworth:It's so good, and it's really nailing what this movie's trying to do.
Breonna Butterworth:But more importantly, it's a great double feature as the ascending descending duo that they are.
Breonna Butterworth:So if you want two movies that approach this, a similar philosophical problem, but come out with very different approaches, and, I think, different perspectives on it in the end, too.
Breonna Butterworth:This can be a really fun's the wrong word, but at least a really interesting double feature and definitely worth your time.
Nathan Schur:Fun isn't what comes to mind, but.
Breonna Butterworth:Here'S a question, Sam.
Breonna Butterworth:What would you.
Breonna Butterworth:Which one would you watch first?
Sam Cole:I honestly, I would watch angel heart first because.
Sam Cole:Because Jacob's ladder is such a intense mic drop that, like, I don't know how to.
Sam Cole:How you can go on with the evening after that.
Sam Cole:Like, what.
Sam Cole:What more is there to do?
Sam Cole:You're just like Jesus.
Nathan Schur:But I can.
Sam Cole:I can see the argument for, like, going with the heavier, more intense.
Breonna Butterworth:That's kind of why I would do it the other way.
Nathan Schur:Kind of end in opposite ways.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, exactly.
Nathan Schur:So I might end with Jacob's ladder because at least that final shot, I kind of feel like there's a more cathartic ending to it in some ways.
Nathan Schur:He kind of.
Nathan Schur:I don't want to ruin it for anybody who hasn't seen the end of Jacob's ladder.
Nathan Schur:It's intense, but at least it's.
Nathan Schur:The character finds something that he's looking for at the end.
Breonna Butterworth:I feel like, yeah, Jacob's daughter.
Breonna Butterworth:That was.
Breonna Butterworth:That was my first choice.
Breonna Butterworth:Can I.
Breonna Butterworth:Can I give us a backup choice?
Breonna Butterworth:Can I do that?
Nathan Schur:I want to see, by the way, Jacob's ladder, a movie that now all three of us have recommended.
Breonna Butterworth:I was.
Breonna Butterworth:Came pretty close.
Breonna Butterworth:I think devil's advocate would also be a very good.
Sam Cole:Oh, that's, that's, that movie's fun.
Sam Cole:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:That's just a rip roaring good time.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Schur:All right.
Nathan Schur:Very good.
Nathan Schur:So much darkness on this show.
Breonna Butterworth:Nathaniel, why do you have teed up for us, sir?
Nathan Schur:Well, you know, all this doom and gloom and gothic horror, you know, and after watching angel heart, I felt there was a lot of cruelty towards chickens going on in my life this week.
Nathan Schur:You know, this was compounded by the fact that we went to a very fine indian dining establishment and I ordered one of my favorite dishes, chicken saag, earlier this week.
Breonna Butterworth:So, so delicious.
Nathan Schur:I felt it was necessary for someone to stand up for chickens.
Breonna Butterworth:What have you done?
Nathan Schur:If not me, then who did you put?
Breonna Butterworth:Chicken run.
Nathan Schur:Yes.
Nathan Schur:Chicken run.
Nathan Schur:Glorious stop motion animated film from Aardman animation directors Nick Park Peter Lord.
Nathan Schur:Chicken run is a comedy, a parody in many ways.
Nathan Schur:You know, parodies the films of great escape, but also almost a Stalag 17 escape from Alcatraz.
Nathan Schur:A little bit of bravehearts in there, too.
Nathan Schur:Stars a bunch of chickens, chickens who are locked up as prisoners of war in a style camp run by the evil miss Tweety, who have this, has his very nefarious plans for her flock of chickens.
Nathan Schur:This film is incredibly funny with some great one liners.
Nathan Schur:It's got amazing animation.
Nathan Schur:Like I said, it's stop motion.
Nathan Schur:It's just jaw dropping.
Nathan Schur:The creativity that was put into the elaborate sets with dozens of chickens running around, moving in this animation style, it's one of the wonderful films that's perfect for parents to watch with the kids from ages probably like four to ten or even older, because the jokes work on multiple levels.
Nathan Schur:And I know pairing with angel Heart seems odd, but after brutal descent into hell, why not wing it and have a good laugh with some foul play?
Breonna Butterworth:Chicken pies.
Breonna Butterworth:But I don't know, want to be a pie.
Breonna Butterworth:I don't like gravy.
Sam Cole:The reason why I get joy out of this is because I can see your face, like, conceiving this choice in your office when you're like, you're like, you're like, oh, I'm going to throw this curveball in there.
Sam Cole:And like, that is.
Sam Cole:That's brilliant, I think.
Nathan Schur:Chicken.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:Chicken events on Netflix it's a great movie, too.
Breonna Butterworth:It's just a really fun movie.
Breonna Butterworth:I think the animation style is incredible.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:I'm down.
Nathan Schur:All right.
Nathan Schur:Chicken Ramen heart.
Nathan Schur:Perfect double feature.
Breonna Butterworth:Perfect double feature.
Breonna Butterworth:Which one would you watch first?
Nathan Schur:Oh, I would.
Nathan Schur:I'd watch angel heart first.
Nathan Schur:Cause I need.
Nathan Schur:I need a laugh after that.
Sam Cole:Yeah, you gotta have the lift.
Sam Cole:You gotta come.
Breonna Butterworth:I wasn't sure.
Sam Cole:And go back up and enjoy the chickens, you know?
Breonna Butterworth:All right.
Breonna Butterworth:I wasn't sure if, like, the kids were awake.
Breonna Butterworth:So you'd watch chicken run?
Nathan Schur:I wake him up, you know, we're gonna start with kids.
Nathan Schur:We're watching Angel Heart, and then after that, you can watch chicken run as a reward.
Breonna Butterworth:Good, good.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Sam Cole:Talk about a film that is, like, so not designed for children.
Sam Cole:Like angel heart.
Sam Cole:Like, no kid can watch that.
Sam Cole:Like, no way.
Sam Cole:No way.
Breonna Butterworth:If.
Breonna Butterworth:If a kid watches that, he's immediately allowed to buy a pack of cigarettes.
Nathan Schur:We talk about the smoking in that movie.
Breonna Butterworth:Everybody smoking inside like a grown up.
Sam Cole:I just like, it's fetish with, like, ballpoint pens.
Sam Cole: lpoint pens weren't around in: Sam Cole:I was like, I feel it.
Nathan Schur:I love that investigative moment, you know?
Breonna Butterworth:That was so good.
Nathan Schur:All right, those are our picks for movie pairings.
Nathan Schur:Let us know what you think or if you have a better one.
Nathan Schur:I can't imagine that being possible.
Nathan Schur:Let's transition to our weekly highlight.
Nathan Schur:All right.
Breonna Butterworth:What?
Breonna Butterworth:A week.
Nathan Schur:A week.
Nathan Schur:Who would like to begin with this?
Sam Cole:Sam?
Sam Cole:Oh, God.
Sam Cole:I never go first.
Sam Cole:So I'll get this out of the way briefly, because, honestly, it's been a very busy week.
Sam Cole:I really did nothing get a chance to see any movies, unfortunately.
Sam Cole:But I will say briefly that because I had the.
Sam Cole:This past weekend free, I had a moment of time to escape.
Sam Cole:I went up to San Francisco, and I saw a fleet week, which is this incredible air show of planes.
Sam Cole:There's these group called Blue Angels, and it is, like, the most spectacular air show I have ever seen.
Breonna Butterworth:The stunts, I love the Blue angels.
Sam Cole:They're incredible.
Sam Cole:The stunts are in seven.
Sam Cole:They are insane.
Sam Cole:They even had, like, a seven.
Sam Cole:Seven.
Sam Cole:Seven flown by united.
Sam Cole:That, like, careens down toward the Golden Gate Bridge and then, like, misses it at the last minute.
Sam Cole:I did it because I went up there.
Sam Cole:I incorporated.
Sam Cole:I was filming a walks of world episode for my YouTube channel.
Sam Cole:And then I was just banking future episodes.
Sam Cole:I also walked in Golden Gate park, which is a huge, stunningly beautiful park.
Sam Cole:It's not this one big, wide open field.
Sam Cole:It's like all these different valleys and different areas and woodlands and trails.
Sam Cole:It's really long.
Sam Cole:It's big.
Sam Cole:A gorgeous location.
Sam Cole:The only media that I did see, which is hilarious, that I almost hesitate to even mention.
Sam Cole:But on my long drive back to LA, I listened to red letter media and they were reviewing the puppet master series.
Sam Cole:I've never seen any of those films, but I just enjoyed listening to them talk about it.
Sam Cole:And it's a part one video and they reviewed the first three films and they're direct to video.
Sam Cole:Incredibly cheesy, but it was just fascinating.
Sam Cole:Entertain that.
Sam Cole:I would love to have seen some films this week.
Sam Cole:Very busy week.
Sam Cole:But that.
Sam Cole:That is, is the, is the extent of my, like, entertainment factor this past.
Breonna Butterworth:Hey, you were filming, right?
Sam Cole:Filming.
Breonna Butterworth:That's right.
Breonna Butterworth:I get the verb.
Breonna Butterworth:That's awesome.
Sam Cole:That was a better.
Nathan Schur:Whoo.
Sam Cole:I should have had that woo.
Sam Cole:At the beginning.
Sam Cole:I'm sorry.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:Where were you in the beginning, guys?
Sam Cole:I let you down and.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah.
Sam Cole:And, and the regret in my heart is I'm just.
Sam Cole:I'm just gonna try one day at a time.
Sam Cole:I'm just gonna have to get through it.
Breonna Butterworth:You're subjected to puppet master now?
Breonna Butterworth:I had a pretty good week in movies, so I don't know that I've really kept up with Hooptober in a way that is holding any kind of integrity.
Breonna Butterworth:But I am trying to stick to a spooky season and it's been fun.
Breonna Butterworth:I've done a lot of good practical effects movies.
Breonna Butterworth:So I did an american werewolf in London.
Breonna Butterworth:That's so good.
Sam Cole:I love that movie.
Breonna Butterworth:Oh, it was great.
Sam Cole:Not to interrupt.
Sam Cole:I'll just say briefly, one thing I love about that movie is I love that that movie does not try to.
Sam Cole:I won't give away everything.
Sam Cole:Like, it does not try to have a plot twist.
Sam Cole:Like he gets bitten and he becomes a werewolf.
Sam Cole:And that's his.
Sam Cole:That's the movie and that's it.
Sam Cole:And it doesn't like, oh, no, there's redemption.
Sam Cole:We're gonna get out of this.
Sam Cole:It's like, no, you got bit.
Sam Cole:You are totally effed.
Breonna Butterworth:They tell him to die through the whole movie.
Sam Cole:And the end.
Sam Cole:So like that.
Sam Cole:The rampage at the end of that movie is so spectacular.
Sam Cole:I love that movie.
Breonna Butterworth:It's an awesome.
Breonna Butterworth:Criterion has a great series right now on horror effects, and it's.
Breonna Butterworth:It's really fun, but it's in that one.
Breonna Butterworth:So if you have criterion, you should watch it.
Sam Cole:The Paris one, the second one.
Breonna Butterworth:Yes, it's.
Sam Cole:It's kind of strange, but I was kind of bizarrely entertained, but it's, like, nowhere near as good.
Sam Cole:But I kind of enjoyed it.
Sam Cole:Like, yeah, I like its own thing, you know?
Breonna Butterworth:Like, yeah, yeah, it's been.
Breonna Butterworth:It's been a good spooky.
Breonna Butterworth:See, I didn't see you guys last week, so I'll give you just a quick rundown.
Breonna Butterworth:I've done some Roger Corman.
Breonna Butterworth:I did the masquerade, death and a bucket of blood.
Breonna Butterworth:So that's been really fun.
Breonna Butterworth:The Wicker man, that was part of my.
Breonna Butterworth:The original Wicker man, which I always want to be a little spookier.
Breonna Butterworth:But then I did think about our gothic heart, and I watched some sleepy hollow, which is another just really fun one, and Lisa Frankenstein, which is a newer one, which was kind of a horror comedy and just.
Breonna Butterworth:Just made me want to watch Heathers and the craft.
Sam Cole:So I got to get more on the.
Sam Cole:On the.
Sam Cole:On the.
Sam Cole:On the gothic train, like, for this podcast, obviously, but I have not been fulfilling my Halloween.
Sam Cole:I managed 20 minutes of focus, focus on AMC before falling asleep.
Breonna Butterworth:I do love.
Sam Cole:I want to see a couple of Jason Voorhees.
Sam Cole:Like, I love that.
Sam Cole:Yeah, those were just totally mindless.
Sam Cole:And you watch it because it's just for his creative bizarre kills, and the characters are like nobodies, but those movies are so much fun.
Breonna Butterworth:Seven and eight are some of my favorite Jason movies, too.
Breonna Butterworth:Like, Jason takes Manhattan, and then there's, like, the Exorcist Jason.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, it's a good time.
Sam Cole:Jason Manhattan wastes so much time on a boat.
Sam Cole:That's why I love it.
Breonna Butterworth:But it's one of the wettest horror movies you're gonna see anyway.
Breonna Butterworth:Nathan, what did you watch?
Nathan Schur:This?
Nathan Schur:I didn't really see.
Nathan Schur:I mean, we talked about Joker two Foley Ado already, but there wasn't that much I did.
Nathan Schur: Witch, which is a movie from: Breonna Butterworth:Oh, that's a good movie.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:I have some mixed thoughts on it, but I'm not really gonna talk about that.
Nathan Schur:But what I am excited to mention is that I finally completed my journey through the entire Robert Altman filmography.
Breonna Butterworth:You did it.
Nathan Schur:I did it.
Nathan Schur:I did it.
Nathan Schur:And I've done quite, you know, quite a few times in my life.
Nathan Schur:I've gone through a director's entire output, but never one as large as Altman's.
Breonna Butterworth:And it took me time.
Nathan Schur:Full year, 36 films.
Nathan Schur:There were a couple tv movies that he did that I didn't track down, but I did every single feature length film, 36 of them.
Nathan Schur:And I chose, you know, Robert Altman, a because I've always been fascinated by a direct director such as him.
Nathan Schur:He had such a very storied career.
Nathan Schur:It lasted decades.
Nathan Schur:I also, many of his movies I've never seen before.
Nathan Schur:I saw a lot of the Touchstone movies, but so many I never saw.
Nathan Schur:He also had so many phases of his career that are just easily marked, you know, the seventies, you know, how they, he explored onto the scene with mash.
Nathan Schur:And he had a slow, kind of like, trickling out phase with the studios until he kind of, like, went into obscurity by the end of the decade.
Nathan Schur:And then he makes kind of a giant splash in the beginning of the eighties with Popeye, a film that I personally cannot stand.
Nathan Schur:But it's such an outlier in his filmography.
Nathan Schur:It was, you know, it was a failure, but it set him up for a decade of very low budget projects, but some very creative and interesting films.
Nathan Schur:And then the nineties, he makes this miraculous comeback and successful commercial and critical comeback with the player and shortcuts.
Nathan Schur:And honestly, outside of just a few of the films, I thought the nineties were maybe his most consistent decade.
Nathan Schur:Then the two thousands, you could tell he was really telling stories that were close to his heart.
Nathan Schur:And it was an incredible career.
Nathan Schur:And you can, you really can't compare it to any other director.
Nathan Schur:I can't say I loved all of his movies.
Nathan Schur:In fact, many of them I had a really strong aversion to.
Nathan Schur:And none, none of them I really hold in regard as the greatest films ever made either.
Nathan Schur:I think there's some really good ones in there, but none of them, I feel like would be even in my top 100 movies of all time.
Nathan Schur:But the diversity of the stories is incredible.
Nathan Schur:And I'm guessing no matter what directors I take on next in this, it'll never be quite as eclectic as Altman.
Nathan Schur:So what I have here next is on my letterbox.
Nathan Schur:You can go and see my entire ranking of all 36 movies.
Breonna Butterworth:Nice.
Nathan Schur:I'm gonna mention my top ten here, so I'll share that with you here.
Nathan Schur:So, and this is maybe not the most popular top ten because I have some interesting tastes, maybe.
Nathan Schur:And some of the movies in my top ten, like, why do they put that there?
Nathan Schur:Why are the big movies that you'd expect are not here?
Nathan Schur:Just because I didn't, didn't really connect with me this the way you would expect.
Nathan Schur: umber ten is Kansas City from: Nathan Schur: t three women I think is from: Nathan Schur:I never saw before.
Nathan Schur:I enjoyed it pretty well.
Breonna Butterworth:I like that one too.
Nathan Schur:California split, huge surprise for me.
Nathan Schur:I liked it a lot.
Nathan Schur:Elliott Gould and was in that.
Nathan Schur:So I love that movie.
Nathan Schur:This is a surprising one.
Nathan Schur:The delinquents, which was his very first movie.
Nathan Schur:I don't know why I ranked this so high, but I was looking at my letterbox score.
Nathan Schur:It's pretty high up there.
Nathan Schur:And this is really almost like an industrial movie.
Nathan Schur:But I thought it was so fascinating the way he did this.
Nathan Schur:And yeah, I have that.
Nathan Schur: It's: Nathan Schur:That's my number seven.
Nathan Schur:7th movie cookies.
Nathan Schur: Fortune was: Nathan Schur:That's number six.
Nathan Schur:Number five was Mash, which is probably the, the only one from the way back years which cracked the, the top five.
Sam Cole:I love mash.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, this is me because this is a movie that most people think is one of his worst.
Nathan Schur:But I actually liked it because I like the whole, we're talking about tonight, the whole like southern Gothic.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, the gingerbread man with Kenneth Branagh.
Nathan Schur:A lot of people think this is trash, but I like gothic trash.
Nathan Schur:And this movie, fun mystery film noir.
Breonna Butterworth:So I, Kenneth Branham and what a weird career, too.
Nathan Schur:Number three was his last movie, a Prairie home companion.
Nathan Schur:I thought it was so personal that I actually cried at the end of this because there's so much about life and death in the storytelling, in this, embedded in the text of this movie.
Nathan Schur:And it's like this is a man who knows he's at the end making this movie.
Nathan Schur:So it is a powerful film.
Nathan Schur:Number two, these last two might not be any surprise because I think I raved about this one back when I saw it.
Nathan Schur:Shortcuts.
Breonna Butterworth:Oh, yeah.
Nathan Schur:Was, was, I thought, incredible.
Nathan Schur:And number one is the player still, which is the first Altman movie I ever saw.
Nathan Schur:And it's still my favorite film.
Sam Cole:So yeah, out of curiosity and I just, I love asking people this, what would you say of all the 36 Robert Altman films you saw, what was your least favorite?
Sam Cole:Like the one that you like of all of these movies?
Sam Cole:This one is at the bottom of your list?
Nathan Schur:Well, I already said, I already said it, Popeye.
Nathan Schur:But if I had, there is one other one which universally has been panned and I really hated and that is beyond therapy.
Nathan Schur: It came out in: Nathan Schur:It is, the movie is kind of homophobic.
Nathan Schur:It is poorly made.
Nathan Schur:It is not funny.
Nathan Schur:Wow.
Nathan Schur:You can check it out.
Nathan Schur:It is Jeff Goldblum is in it.
Nathan Schur:And it's Jeff Goldblum in all his idiosyncratic tendencies.
Nathan Schur:That just would drive.
Nathan Schur:It's like nails in a chalkboard.
Nathan Schur:And it's a really hard watch.
Sam Cole:Interesting.
Nathan Schur:There are a couple films that are just hard to get through in his filmography.
Nathan Schur:His second to last movie was a movie called the Company with James Franco.
Nathan Schur:I'm blanking on him.
Nathan Schur:It was the girl from Nev Campbell, which it was two hour movie.
Nathan Schur:And I feel like 80 minutes of it was just ballet performances.
Sam Cole:Would you put like Gosford park towards the upper half or the lower half.
Nathan Schur:As in the upper half?
Nathan Schur:That would probably be in the top 15.
Breonna Butterworth:I'm surprised not to see the long goodbye a little.
Nathan Schur:That would probably just probably twelve or so.
Sam Cole:I didn't realize, I mean, living, that's a lot of movies.
Sam Cole:Like, I knew he made a lot, but I never knew the exact, like, that's a.
Sam Cole:That is a.
Breonna Butterworth:That's a career.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nathan Schur:It's so there you go.
Nathan Schur:That's my, that.
Nathan Schur:That's all I have to say about this week because I'm thinking about what I'm gonna do next, and I don't know.
Nathan Schur:All I know is that it's not gonna be a director with 36 movies.
Nathan Schur:Movies.
Breonna Butterworth:I'm looking at Coen brothers with me.
Nathan Schur:Well, here's the thing.
Nathan Schur:I do have a crate.
Nathan Schur:I do have criteria for this.
Nathan Schur:I'm looking at directors that are not putting out new movies so they're no longer with us.
Nathan Schur:That is one thing I'm doing.
Nathan Schur:And I want to be directors that don't have the largest filmography right now.
Nathan Schur:And I've whittled it down to five right now.
Nathan Schur:And you can give me your opinion on this and maybe the audience can tell me what they think.
Nathan Schur:I'm looking at Orson Welles, who has 16 movies.
Nathan Schur:I'm looking at Preston Sturgis, who has twelve films.
Breonna Butterworth:Oh, more fun.
Nathan Schur:I'm looking at Alejandro Jodorowsky, who has nine movies.
Nathan Schur:And also I'm looking at filmmakers that I have not seen most of the body of their work as well.
Nathan Schur:And I'm looking at Michelangelo Antonioni, who's done 14 and one that b, you just recently did in the past year, David Lean, who has ten movies.
Nathan Schur:So I want somebody that I could probably knock out in less than like a year or so or six months or so.
Nathan Schur:That's.
Sam Cole:I'd be fascinated to do David Lean, one of my favorite filmmakers, and I might just do the list for completion.
Sam Cole:I think I've seen a lot of his movies already, but there's probably three or four.
Sam Cole:I'm a huge Peter Weir fan.
Breonna Butterworth:Yes.
Sam Cole: like, I loved, I think it was: Sam Cole:That movie is just awesome.
Sam Cole:Like, I.
Sam Cole:I just like his sensibility because.
Sam Cole:I don't know, I think.
Sam Cole:I think if I want to, if I.
Sam Cole:Cause, like, you guys have inspired me to do this, I want to get my feet wet, but, like, ease in.
Sam Cole:And Peter weir, for me, would be a nice start because I've seen it.
Breonna Butterworth:Have you seen the cars that eat people?
Sam Cole:No, I have not.
Breonna Butterworth:That's one I did.
Breonna Butterworth:For our Mad Max retrospect, we did that, and that was really fun.
Breonna Butterworth:But David Lean was, was really a great one.
Breonna Butterworth:Antonioni is.
Breonna Butterworth:You can really see those phases in his career like we talked about.
Breonna Butterworth:I haven't seen all of them, but I've seen a lot of his movies through those different phases.
Sam Cole:I haven't even seen passage to India.
Sam Cole:I've never seen that before.
Breonna Butterworth:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Sam Cole:And, like, he did that, and I've heard interesting things at it.
Sam Cole:Like, I mean, yes.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Schur:Well, maybe by next week I'll announce.
Breonna Butterworth:You'Ve got just lots of good options.
Nathan Schur:I got some.
Nathan Schur:So I'm limiting, limiting it to directors no longer with us that I haven't seen most of the body of their work, and there might be some few in there, but that's my short list right now.
Breonna Butterworth:Preston's a good call to, though.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, he's got a really great.
Nathan Schur:His first, like, eight films are like, masterpieces.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nathan Schur:That's so.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:The lady Eve.
Breonna Butterworth:Come on.
Nathan Schur:That one I have seen.
Nathan Schur:And that was what has kind of inspired me to, like, get into the rest of it.
Nathan Schur:I actually saw that about a month ago, and I'm like, I gotta see all of his.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, yeah.
Breonna Butterworth:Classic.
Breonna Butterworth:Although it might feel a little.
Breonna Butterworth:I don't know.
Breonna Butterworth:You just did Robert Altman, so Hollywood might feel a little.
Nathan Schur:Yeah, that's the other thing I'm trying to, like, get away from.
Nathan Schur:Switch it up with another.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:Different type of filmmaker.
Nathan Schur:I think we have done all tonight.
Nathan Schur:Whoo.
Nathan Schur:So maybe we can wrap it up next week, though.
Nathan Schur:We have one more film in our gothic horror retrospective.
Breonna Butterworth:Bees.
Breonna Butterworth:Pick.
Nathan Schur:What's your pick?
Nathan Schur:Tell us about it.
Breonna Butterworth:Go watch it.
Breonna Butterworth:It's Crimson Peak.
Breonna Butterworth:Guillermo del toroid.
Breonna Butterworth:It's good.
Breonna Butterworth:It's a good movie.
Nathan Schur:2015 is that.
Nathan Schur:I saw this probably a year after it came out.
Sam Cole:I have not seen it.
Breonna Butterworth:Yeah, it's cool.
Breonna Butterworth:This whole series, there's movies where someone, one of us hasn't seen it at least, so this will be fun.
Sam Cole:This rock toba is rocking.
Sam Cole:Radical.
Sam Cole:Guys, stay away from the devil.
Sam Cole:Pray work out in the morning.
Sam Cole:Morning.
Sam Cole:And try your best.
Sam Cole:Just.
Sam Cole:Just keep at it.
Breonna Butterworth:Just try your best.
Nathan Schur:All right.
Nathan Schur:All right.
Nathan Schur:Well, I think.
Nathan Schur:I don't.
Nathan Schur:I forget where anyone.
Nathan Schur:Check quickly where Crimson Peak might be streaming.
Nathan Schur:If it is, I got it.
Breonna Butterworth:You can watch Crimson Peak.
Breonna Butterworth:Oh, it's on prime.
Breonna Butterworth:Or you can rent it on Apple.
Nathan Schur:Great.
Nathan Schur:Okay, well, that, that.
Nathan Schur:Finally, before we just one more reminder.
Nathan Schur: ,: Nathan Schur:More on that to come.
Nathan Schur:Check our feed.
Nathan Schur:That is the show this week.
Nathan Schur:Back to the frame rate is part of the Westin Media podcast network.
Nathan Schur:We wish to thank Brian Ellsworth for our show opening.
Nathan Schur:On behalf of all of us, we bid you farewell from the fallout shelter.
Nathan Schur:Your presence in our underground sanctuary is truly appreciated.
Nathan Schur:We are sorry you cannot join us, but we want to express our gratitude for your company.
Nathan Schur:If you're finding solace in our discussions, we kindly ask that you please subscribe and leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whichever portal connects you to our broadcast.
Nathan Schur:There you can find more episodes of this podcast and also on our website, backtotheframerate.com dot, and on our socials with the handle back to the frame rate.
Nathan Schur:You can find us on Facebook, Instagram threads, YouTube, TikTok, and Twitter.
Nathan Schur:We're also on LinkedIn.
Nathan Schur:I found out because I posted our episodes there, too.
Breonna Butterworth:Cool.
Nathan Schur:Yeah.
Nathan Schur:Your support is the beacon of light that brightens our confined space.
Nathan Schur:Until we emerge from the fallout, stay with us.
Nathan Schur:Keep hope alive, and keep those reviews coming and share our episodes with your friends.
Nathan Schur:This is the end of our transmission.
Nathan Schur:Back to the frame rate.
Nathan Schur:Signing off.
Breonna Butterworth:I want you to know it.
Breonna Butterworth:It's over.
Unnamed Guest:Well.
Nathan Schur:Bye.
